Ren'Py Heavy Five [Ch.2RS] [Nottravis]

[Roelandt]

While I generally agree with you, we also have to take into account that this is happening in the future.

While military certainly values tradition and sticks to it as much as possible, things still change with time. In most cases due to strictly practical reasons but it wouldn't be such a stretch to assume that saluting indoors became a thing because space naval personnel spend vast majority of their time indoors or something similar...

Military doesn't stick to things as much as possible. That's a civilian concept. Military just does it or not. If there isn't an SOP, the higher ups will write one.

But, I see what you're saying. Changes in procedures.

Probably not as you described since salute protocol has been the same pretty much throughout military history when saluting became a Thing, relatively unchanged worldwide. Something like that doesn't change without reason. I mean...what's the point even considering changes like that as a writer in the first place? Just spend 30 seconds on Google and move on.

Its unlikely that in the future it will become protocol for saluting at the ramp in a spaceport docking bay. If it was, then why did she not salute him? Service people don't make mistakes like that. They are as likely to forget how to dress and put their underwear on the outside after putting their pants on. Service people only forget to salute in training, and in movie or TV. She didn't salute him as he approached because she isn't supposed to. The Lieutenant needs to read his SOP (hehe).

If the writer wanted to give him something for the MC to be a hardnose about, she could have had her shirt untucked or something like that. Don't have to invent a procedure. I've personally had my head ripped off by a 2nd Lt (lowest rank USAF officer) for missing a button on my uniform at the Chow Hall! One of the reasons why I avoided going to the Chow Hall in uniform.

 

[I'm Not Thea Lundgren!]

The other thing to remember is that the MC only goes down the whole "I deserve a salute" path if they are being a bit of a dick.

Another thing is that this the Notty's game, she can write it how she wants to.

I'm not saying anyone is wrong here, just deal with it or move on.

 

[TheDevian]

Military doesn't stick to things as much as possible. That's a civilian concept. Military just does it or not. If there isn't an SOP, the higher ups will write one.

But, I see what you're saying. Changes in procedures.

Probably not as you described since salute protocol has been the same pretty much throughout military history when saluting became a Thing, relatively unchanged worldwide. Something like that doesn't change without reason. I mean...what's the point even considering changes like that as a writer in the first place? Just spend 30 seconds on Google and move on.

Its unlikely that in the future it will become protocol for saluting at the ramp in a spaceport docking bay. If it was, then why did she not salute him? Service people don't make mistakes like that. They are as likely to forget how to dress and put their underwear on the outside after putting their pants on. Service people only forget to salute in training, and in movie or TV. She didn't salute him as he approached because she isn't supposed to. The Lieutenant needs to read his SOP (hehe).

If the writer wanted to give him something for the MC to be a hardnose about, she could have had her shirt untucked or something like that. Don't have to invent a procedure. I've personally had my head ripped off by a 2nd Lt (lowest rank USAF officer) for missing a button on my uniform at the Chow Hall! One of the reasons why I avoided going to the Chow Hall in uniform.

Also, remember that the US military is not the only military around, and they do not all have the same regulations. The dev is a Brit, so that is another thing to keep in mind.

 

[NeimadFR]

Something to consider is that salute protocol might in fact be the same in this world but MC is just being a huge dick and Sarah just freaks out and salute even though she's not supposed to.

 

[Akamari]

When reporting to a new ship, he shouldn't stop to chat with anyone. He needs to make a b-line to the commander of the ship and say, "Lieutenant MainCharacter reporting as ordered, sir." Salute and wait for the response. He is not free to go anywhere on the ship until the commander welcomes him aboard.

I'll just point out that you seem to be missing the circumstances. He doesn't report to a new ship. The player Lieutenant is essentially a passenger from a different branch with his own mission different from that of the flight crew. He is of equal rank as the commanding officer of the transport shuttle.

If it was, then why did she not salute him? Service people don't make mistakes like that. They are as likely to forget how to dress and put their underwear on the outside after putting their pants on. Service people only forget to salute in training, and in movie or TV.

Well, she is fairly new to the service. And part of her personality is that she can get easily distracted.

 

[Akamari]

This isn't a military sci-fi VN, this is a sci-fi vn with a bit of space navy themes and sexy content. It does not need to be 100% accurate with regards to a minor thing as saluting. Now if this was to be a historical non-fiction VN I could understand the need to be accurate.

Honestly just sit back and enjoy the game.

Knowing Notty, I bet it is accurate though.

 

[reiterhaniwa]

Something to consider is that salute protocol might in fact be the same in this world but MC is just being a huge dick and Sarah just freaks out and salute even though she's not supposed to.

This is, sadly, a likely possibility. Poor Sarah

Knowing Notty, I bet it is accurate though.

Notty immortal time-traveler confirmed!

 

[LuciferPrometheus]

In the game the mc has sexual encounters with his colleagues and will have even more of the same in the future. Isn't that grounds for suspension in the military? If you're looking for accuracy this sure ain't the game for you chief. That way you'd have to complete your mission without engaging with any of the female characters in the game. I am sure the story is going to be quite good without the sex scenes but we're not here for just that are we?

 

[DA22]

I must have missed that, Earth is dying/dead in the heavy-five 'verse?

All this talk of saluting and no-one has yet to talk about how to do it properly? Let's see Rimmer show us how

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Well maybe not dying yet, but there is a reason they need that colony so bad due to heavy overpopulation and using up resources and why the PPF is not a fan of all the rich escaping to paradise and leave the rest behind on Earth to deal with the problems the rich profited most from in creating them. This is more something that was in some news reports of the old chapter 3 before remake. So we will see if something more or same is revealed in the remake.

 

[Krynh]

From what we've seen of the planet so far, I'm not sure anyone would want to live there.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Something to consider is that salute protocol might in fact be the same in this world but MC is just being a huge dick and Sarah just freaks out and salute even though she's not supposed to.

It's waaaaaaaaaay more simple than that.

Roelandt isn't as smart as he think, and he forgot two cases where you salute an officer.

The first one is when you are welcoming him on board. And it's precisely what Sarah is doing when the MC have the possibility (note the word, it's not something that happen by itself) to force her to salute him. She's on duty to welcome the passengers on board of the Vanguard, and as such she have to salute the officers that are boarding.
Now, one can argue that they are both indoor and on board, so that this salute do not apply here. But it's forgetting the context, and anyway it's invalidated by the second forgotten case.

Spoiler: if you want to know why it apply ; warning, it will be boring

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As for the second forgotten case, it's something that apply and happen on every military places all over the world. Be sure that, at this exact moment you're reading this, there's at least one soldier, somewhere on the world, saluting an officer because of this : When an officer order you to salute him, you do it, whatever where you are at this time, dot !
Every single person that have been on the military know at least one of those asshole officers that would order you to salute him even if you were at the toilet, dick in hand taking a piss.
And, well, the player have the choice, two times. He can go with the lax "no salute situation", or he can be a jerk, and order both Sarah, then Annie, to salute him. And this is totally accurate to the actual reality on the military forces ; even if, by happening in the future of another universe, the game had no obligation to reach such accuracy.


Therefore, problem solved. The only error is the lack of understanding coming from one player, who thought smart to notify us about it.

 

[Flintos82]

I like my science fiction to have a little fiction in it, if Notty wants to plant a coffee table book in the cafeteria telling us that saluting was invented a couple of decades ago because a race of alien imposters tried to infiltrate the human military and the only way to identify real humans was by lifting an arm, bending an elbow and straigtening a hand... I'd be cool with that explanation.
I would vastly prefer it to reading a 10 page historically accurate essay in the welcome to chapter 3 message.

 

[Nottravis]

I just started the game a few minutes ago. One minor thing respectfully passed on for consideration.

Options available to the MC so far involved more or less adhering to military protocol but he is getting the protocol wrong.

Military personnel doesn't salute indoors (or onboard) except when formally reporting to an officer, such as when called to the commander's office or...as in the case of the MC, when reporting to his new ship. A lieutenant in any branch of service in any nation would not order someone to salute him indoors/onboard since he would be breaching protocol, unless he were in his office and the lower rank was reporting to him.

A salute is maintained until the officer either returns the salute or tells you to drop it.

When reporting to a new ship, he shouldn't stop to chat with anyone. He needs to make a b-line to the commander of the ship and say, "Lieutenant MainCharacter reporting as ordered, sir." Salute and wait for the response. He is not free to go anywhere on the ship until the commander welcomes him aboard.

Just minor things vets notice when we see them done incorrectly in civilian life. Simple things like saluting or when to wear your hat become deeply ingrained and it's jarring when we see them misused, mishandled, or disrespected. But we know to a civilian, none of that means a thing. Just saying though...we notice.

Takes 30 seconds to Google stuff nowadays, so all this info is easy to find if you are interested in accuracy!

Thank you. And I appreciate the feedback.

There are, of course, variations between different nations services and H5 is, being a brit, largely based on my own experiences with British forces where we would salute indoors for the greeting of the day. There are also variations in the ways and manners of salutes ofc. The "Andrew" salutes much like US forces, whereas the army and the "crabs" salute in a completely different manner - and that's just in the UK. Although if it was entirely based on UK protocol (and it isn't) Sarah wouldn't salute in any case as in the UK you're saluting the cap badge and not the officer. The cap badge being the representation of the monarch of which the officer merely holds the monarch's commission. Given no one is wearing head dress/cap badge....no salute. You're quite right in respect of the salute being held etc but to be completely accurate in some respects would hit the pace of the game so I have to compromise.

We see the same thing with the flight clearance and terminology etc. It's squeezed and condensed enough to create the atmosphere without slowing it down too much (or at least that's the aim). The use of "Pan Pan Pan" as opposed to "Mayday, Mayday, Mayday" is probably the most obvious example here but it simply reads better on the "page".

Of course, the biggest get out we have here is "future stuff" and so perhaps, akin to rank changes etc protocol has varied over time especially on a combined force of many nations.

Edit: So broadly, on salutes, I'm running with UK protocol with the adjustment that the head dress rule is removed. So you salute regardless on the first greeting on the day.

 

[Nottravis]

I would vastly prefer it to reading a 10 page historically accurate essay in the welcome to chapter 3 message.

Bugger. I'd better take that out now then....

 

[Nottravis]

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TLDR.

I fried the CPU. It's repaired. No one is getting screwed over on pledges. I'm going to do Chapter Four releases in a different way as I'm tired of falling on my arse all the time.

 

[Nottravis]

Im gonna try this original game because seems very very interesting Nottravis

I hope you like it. Please do let me know what you think, even if only by PM.

 

[F1forhalp]

only spare CPU around here would be some ancient Quad Athlon, i'm guessing that won't fit..

and my final on salutes >.>

Spoiler

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[Krynh]

whereas the army and the "crabs" salute in a completely different manner

crabs? Navy or Royal Marines?

Fying the cpu wow. You don't have much luck when it comes to computers not breaking.

only spare CPU around here would be some ancient Quad Athlon,

I had an AMD athlon 4 I think? Sitting around some years back. Think I threw it away in the end.

 

[Nottravis]

crabs? Navy or Royal Marines?

RAF

From the colour of their uniform which is the same shade as an old ointment for treating public lice...

 

[Krynh]

RAF

From the colour of their uniform which is the same shade as an old ointment for treating public lice...

ha ha wow. Also I hope no-one cancels their pledge because of this, can't wait for chapter 3