Ren'Py Heavy Five [Ch.2RS] [Nottravis]

[professorx10]

I'm not sure what you mean by characters path, is it the 4 choices of MC a the start or the different love interest?
If it's the former, there is a lot of overlap between each MC for example white male and black male would probably be 90% the same thing.
If it's the latter the game structure makes it impossible to have one Sarah update followed by one Chris update and so on and so forth.
The only possible way segmenting the updates could work is if she did one for the morning, one for the afternoon and one for the evening.

I was referring to the 4 choices of MC at the start.
Now, if as you say, the path's are 90% the same, why not make them 100% and just let the player choose the character 'look' that they prefer? The drop in workload would be significant, not to mention the reduction of frustration of those who return to the beginning, change character and then find out they've only found so little additional game play it wasn't worth the effort?
I did assume that later in the plot, the character choice would make a significant difference in plot events because of the way the Dev set the game up. One would think so.

So again, I know it's too late to change the game design, but I was just pointing out that the '4 paths going forward' game concept might be a significant cause for the slow development and therefore the majority of comments all being toward the frustration of waiting endlessly for any new revisions.

Which at this point, seems to be possibly Late Sept. Early Oct. Maybe?

 

[I'm Not Thea Lundgren!]

...

Which at this point, seems to be possibly Late Sept. Early Oct. Maybe?

If you follow Notty on Twitter you'll have seen the release should be coming this week.

 

[TheDevian]

I was referring to the 4 choices of MC at the start.
Now, if as you say, the path's are 90% the same, why not make them 100% and just let the player choose the character 'look' that they prefer?

That would make little sense, and not be very fun or realistic. People react differently to you based on who and what you are. If nothing else, the sex scenes have to be different.

 

[NeimadFR]

I was referring to the 4 choices of MC at the start.
Now, if as you say, the path's are 90% the same, why not make them 100% and just let the player choose the character 'look' that they prefer? The drop in workload would be significant, not to mention the reduction of frustration of those who return to the beginning, change character and then find out they've only found so little additional game play it wasn't worth the effort?
I did assume that later in the plot, the character choice would make a significant difference in plot events because of the way the Dev set the game up. One would think so.

So again, I know it's too late to change the game design, but I was just pointing out that the '4 paths going forward' game concept might be a significant cause for the slow development and therefore the majority of comments all being toward the frustration of waiting endlessly for any new revisions.

Which at this point, seems to be possibly Late Sept. Early Oct. Maybe?

To be fair the 90% estimate was specifically for my experience with black and white male as of chapter 3, or black and white female for that matter. It probably drops to 70% between male and female.

 

[Akamari]

If you follow Notty on Twitter you'll have seen the release should be coming this week.

I'll elaborate on this little bit.

OK, first to the angry mob all those repeatedly complaining about delays, please settle down and don't respond to this with another complaint. Thank you. Or if you do, be nice and constructive.

Now, as I shared earlier (which I guess was deleted too so maybe most of you haven't seen it), the final testing was envisioned to start on saturday. That didn't happen, but there are good reasons for that, and no, it's not Notty's perfectionism.

- First, testing of the Chris domme module is ongoing and based on feedback Notty made some adjustments. So it needs a bit more testing.
- Second, Notty added a bit more content to the game.
- Third, there were a few fixes to be made.

That's development for you. None of this could have been predicted ahead of time.

Notty tends to be a perhaps bit too optimistic about the future at times (in my medical expertise possibly a result of sleep deprivation/jaffa cake overdose/finally seeing the finish line after all the hard work, or combination thereof), so again please don't take this as a promised release date. Objectively speaking, based on my knowledge of the work left, this week is a fairly reasonable estimate. However, there may be a major bug/glitch still yet hidden that could foil it. That had happened before. Still, it's possible it will go well, so fingers crossed.

We'll try to bring you as polished release as we can. I'll try to keep you guys updated as the testing progresses.

 

[imnotoverhere]

OK, first to the angry mob all those repeatedly complaining about delays, please settle down and don't respond to this with another complaint. Thank you. Or if you do, be nice and constructive.

Now, as I shared earlier (which I guess was deleted too so maybe most of you haven't seen it), the final testing was envisioned to start on saturday. That didn't happen, but there are good reasons for that, and no, it's not Notty's perfectionism.

- First, testing of the Chris domme module is ongoing and based on feedback Notty made some adjustments. So it needs a bit more testing.
- Second, Notty added a bit more content to the game.
- Third, there were a few fixes to be made.

That's development for you. None of this could have been predicted ahead of time.

Notty tends to be a perhaps bit too optimistic about the future at times (in my medical expertise possibly a result of sleep deprivation/jaffa cake overdose/finally seeing the finish line after all the hard work, or combination thereof), so again please don't take this as a promised release date. Objectively speaking, based on my knowledge of the work left, this week is a fairly reasonable estimate. However, there may be a major bug/glitch still yet hidden that could foil it. That had happened before. Still, it's possible it will go well, so fingers crossed.

We'll try to bring you as polished release as we can. I'll try to keep you guys updated as the testing progresses.

I don't care when Notty releases the game... I'm not paying so it doesn't affect me. Notty can take however long she wants as far as I'm concerned. What I do get frustrated with, is posts such as this one. The first thing you did in your post is describe anyone who points out the repeated delays as an "angry mob".... sorry... "angry mob" and tell them to settle down as if they're kids who are being irrational. This approach is condescending and belittling, especially since these criticisms about Notty are largely accurate. Notty has a huge problem with time management and most companies in this field would view it the same way. I have done development work before so I know that it's a difficult job. Programming is 95% problem solving and 5% coding. At this point Notty has been developing this game for years, however, even at this point she seems to struggle with her timelines and estimates (in January she posted that she was going for a February release).

2 hours ago Notty posted "Pretty sure it will be this week....". However, you have just informed us that the final testing envisioned to be on Saturday didn't happen so there is more testing needed. In addition, Notty has apparently added more content that wasn't planned as well.

To your point "That's development for you. None of this could have been predicted ahead of time." That literally could have been predicted. The whole reason testing exists is because bugs frequently happen during development and testing is there to find them so developers can fix them. Anytime new content is added, testing needs to be done on that, which now increases the amount of potential bugs and testing needed. So, here we have Notty publicly stating that she is "pretty sure" it will release this week, but she has increased the amount of content and bug testing is running behind schedule. Maybe she will hit that target, but her track record isn't that great.

I am not making these statements to attack Notty. I enjoyed the first 3 chapters of this game. I also, don't care when the update is released. I have no personal stake in this. This is just constructive criticism from someone who has done development work. Notty would really benefit from working with someone who could reign in her goals for each update or provide more realistic estimates. Financially, Notty would benefit from this as well. Smaller updates delivered more frequently generally see higher profits as it's easier to keep a fan base subscribed to Patreon. I'm not saying she's just in this for the money but every developer likes to get paid for their work (and making enough to turn it into your primary job is nice). I don't think Notty is attempting to screw people, but when she puts out incorrect estimate after incorrect estimate, many former supporters will start to walk away and assume they were being lied to. It's just a natural reaction. People who do that or complain, are not being trolls or an angry mob. They're people people who felt lied to and are expressing it.

 

[A.C.H.B.]

For someone who admittedly "doesn't care" and " doesn't have a stake in this", the lady doth protest too much.

 

[imnotoverhere]

For someone who admittedly "doesn't care" and " doesn't have a stake in this", the lady doth protest too much.

Not exactly constructive criticism on your part. In addition, you appear to have misread my comment

"I don't care when Notty releases the game... I'm not paying so it doesn't affect me. Notty can take however long she wants as far as I'm concerned. What I do get frustrated with, is posts such as this one."

Particularly the part in bold. It's frustrating to see posts gaslighting and attacking anyone who provides constructive criticism.

 

[Akamari]

What I do get frustrated with, is posts such as this one. The first thing you did in your post is describe anyone who points out the repeated delays as an "angry mob".... sorry... "angry mob" and tell them to settle down as if they're kids who are being irrational. This approach is condescending and belittling, especially since these criticisms about Notty are largely accurate.

Lad, it's a joke. I thought the strikeout was a clear giveaway that I wasn't trying to belittle anyone. Sorry if it offended you. It wasn't aimed at you btw. but at those who don't behave and who don't listen.

Notty has a huge problem with time management and most companies in this field would view it the same way. I have done development work before so I know that it's a difficult job. Programming is 95% problem solving and 5% coding. At this point Notty has been developing this game for years, however, even at this point she seems to struggle with her timelines and estimates (in January she posted that she was going for a February release).

Did you see my answer describing in detail why the estimates didn't materialise before it was deleted as it was part of the discussion in response to someone's unconstructive criticism?

Anyway, Notty isn't bound by her estimates and we should all be thankful for that because otherwise the game would have been a LOT worse than it is now. Would you rather play inferior Chapter Four in February or much better release in very near future? What do you think is more important?

2 hours ago Notty posted "Pretty sure it will be this week....". However, you have just informed us that the final testing envisioned to be on Saturday didn't happen so there is more testing needed. In addition, Notty has apparently added more content that wasn't planned as well.

You can never know how long the testing will take. The answer is - as necessary. My intention with what I said was to provide a background to that estimate for the sake of transparency. Thought it could give people perspective on how exactly the development is progressing at the moment.

Those added bits of content are just a small (and funny) extension to one of the scenes and more pages for the collectible. A nice additions, IMO. Very little additional testing required. Isn't more content a good thing? There have been quite a few little scenes over the course of the development that exist thanks to the delays. Sometimes ideas spark at the last moment while you're reviewing your creation again.

As I said, I consider "this week" to be realistically possible. Nothing more, nothing less.

To your point "That's development for you. None of this could have been predicted ahead of time." That literally could have been predicted. The whole reason testing exists is because bugs frequently happen during development and testing is there to find them so developers can fix them. Anytime new content is added, testing needs to be done on that, which now increases the amount of potential bugs and testing needed. So, here we have Notty publicly stating that she is "pretty sure" it will release this week, but she has increased the amount of content and bug testing is running behind schedule. Maybe she will hit that target, but her track record isn't that great.

We've had testing sessions with only bugs so easy to fix that it took less than a day. Other time we had a bug that took a week to fix. You just never know what bugs will be found. Totally unpredictable. There is no fixed schedule that must be adhered to no matter what.

I am not making these statements to attack Notty. I enjoyed the first 3 chapters of this game. I also, don't care when the update is released. I have no personal stake in this. This is just constructive criticism from someone who has done development work.

That's fair and I hope you'll enjoy Chapter Four as well.

Notty would really benefit from working with someone who could reign in her goals for each update or provide more realistic estimates. Financially, Notty would benefit from this as well.

Notty would benefit from not trying to guess, IMO, but she is who she is. Personally, I have no problem with missed estimates. I think some people take them far more seriously than they should have. Especially for a project that isn't developed by a paid professional. And even with professionals, I prefers devs that are willing to admit the game isn't ready and delay it for a half a year (even though it clearly means financial loss for them) rather than pretend everything is fine and then release a buggy mess that requires tons of patches. I have sympathy for devs that have players' enjoyment a higher priority than maximized profit.

Smaller updates delivered more frequently generally see higher profits as it's easier to keep a fan base subscribed to Patreon. I'm not saying she's just in this for the money but every developer likes to get paid for their work (and making enough to turn it into your primary job is nice). I don't think Notty is attempting to screw people, but when she puts out incorrect estimate after incorrect estimate, many former supporters will start to walk away and assume they were being lied to. It's just a natural reaction. People who do that or complain, are not being trolls or an angry mob. They're people people who felt lied to and are expressing it.

She's really not in this for money. Not the easy kind at least. She's an artist who wants to create the best she can. She may have taken seemingly bad business decisions but that's because she's ambitious in the artistic sense. Also, the key thing is communication. I think most people who do the patronage understand that it's difficult and estimates often more likely to be broken than not. And Notty is honest, she gives detailed development reports, and every failed estimates get explained. Notty currently has more patrons than she had at the beginning of the year. I think it's fair to say that she still has the trust of the vast majority of her supporters and I also believe they will feel it justified once they played Chapter Four.

 

[A.C.H.B.]

Not exactly constructive criticism on your part. In addition, you appear to have misread my comment

"I don't care when Notty releases the game... I'm not paying so it doesn't affect me. Notty can take however long she wants as far as I'm concerned. What I do get frustrated with, is posts such as this one."

Particularly the part in bold. It's frustrating to see posts gaslighting and attacking anyone who provides constructive criticism.

Constructive criticism you say? Sure, your first few posts to this thread we'll take as constructive criticism. The next dozen just rambling on about the exact same talking points is just plain gaslighting. I also remember you being the one spreading misleading info around a month or two ago, so tell us again who's gaslighting?

"I also, don't care when the update is released. I have no personal stake in this." Sure buddy.

 

[imnotoverhere]

Constructive criticism you say? Sure, your first few posts to this thread we'll take as constructive criticism. The next dozen just rambling on about the exact same talking points is just plain gaslighting. I also remember you being the one spreading misleading info around a month or two ago, so tell us again who's gaslighting?

"I also, don't care when the update is released. I have no personal stake in this." Sure buddy.

By all means, please quote any posts where I spread misinformation. I'm sure you must have ample evidence and that this isn't another attempt by you to discourage any criticism by attacking users on this forum.

As far as "rambling on about the exact same talking points is just plain gaslighting", I'm curious which points you consider gaslighting. If you are referring to my posts stating that Notty doesn't have a good track record of hitting her target goals, I'm not sure how that could be considered gaslighting, as it's very accurate. Notty has given multiple target completion dates and has not hit any of them. In addition, other members of this forum have provided their own timelines on multiple occasions (all of which have proven to be inaccurate). When these posts are made, I generally stay quiet but when members begin attacking people who bring up that's when I start to get a little frustrated and chime in with the facts.

If you need a refresher of what types of posts I'm referring to, here's a few from you. As you can see.... I can actually provide quotes to back up my claims.

Nitpickers drop it after the initial post or two. Our guy over here goes on for a few hours. I actually admire his dedication... to nitpicking.

This next quote is something I actually quite enjoy because it's a similar series of posts to our current one. This exchange took place in May. People pointing out that the game was getting delayed, you and other users criticizing them for this, then me pointing out that Notty has missed multiple timelines and members also have consistently provided inaccurate timelines. It's like we live in the world of Groundhog Day.

The update will come when it's ready. Incessant whining about it won't make the development process go any faster, or slower for that matter. Patience is still, always a virtue.

As far as '"I also, don't care when the update is released. I have no personal stake in this." Sure buddy.', you seem to be having difficulty with comprehension or reading. I do not care when the update is released, I care about the baseless attacks on anyone who bring up legitimate criticism.

 

[A.C.H.B.]

By all means, please quote any posts where I spread misinformation. I'm sure you must have ample evidence and that this isn't another attempt by you to discourage any criticism by attacking users on this forum.

No unnecessary walls of text, just

There isn't much solid information. There hasn't been any detail on the content of the Chapter. All we know is that Notti is working on it. As far as when it comes out... nobody really knows. It was supposedly 100% ready 2 years ago but Notti opted not to release it as she wanted to rework it. Since then there's been speculation on its release date but nothing concrete. Supposedly, the current version of "Chapter 4" is quite different from the version several years ago. Any info provided in this forum (as far as release dates are concerned) are not official and are purely speculative so take it with a grain of salt. Ultimately, it will be released when Notti feels ready. That's about all that's known.

 

[imnotoverhere]

No unnecessary walls of text, just

Yeah, and at that point there wasn't any solid information. All the information that kept getting leaked was filled with huge asterisks because the people leaking the information kept providing incorrect timelines and info. This is either because Notty kept changing her mind on things or because those users didn't really have the knowledge they thought they had. Either way the post pointing out that at that point, everyone should just stop speculating on the release and the content because there was clearly a lack of knowledge about it and we should all just wait until it released. Given that that was 1 and 1/2 months ago it's clear that there wasn't much to be gained by discussing release dates then.... it would have ended the same way the conversation in May ended. So.... good job proving me right?

 

[A.C.H.B.]

Yeah, and at that point there wasn't any solid information. All the information that kept getting leaked was filled with huge asterisks because the people leaking the information kept providing incorrect timelines and info. This is either because Notty kept changing her mind on things or because those users didn't really have the knowledge they thought they had. Either way the post pointing out that at that point, everyone should just stop speculating on the release and the content because there was clearly a lack of knowledge about it and we should all just wait until it released. Given that that was 1 and 1/2 months ago it's clear that there wasn't much to be gained by discussing release dates then.... it would have ended the same way the conversation in May ended. So.... good job proving me right?

Using your own assumptions as a basis for your argument gets you nowhere fast. I mean you started with "at that point there wasn't any solid information", which depending on whose perspective you're looking at is subjective at best; and directly followed it up with "This is either because Notty kept changing her mind on things or because those users didn't really have the knowledge they thought they had.": your own assumption which you are presenting as fact. If by your standards, concealing the fact that you know nothing, behind walls of text that circle back to your own flawed assumptions means proving your point, then congratulations, You win the internet for 10 seconds. MODS: Dropping this issue now, sorry for the OT.

 

[Akamari]

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It's the "It's going to be this week" update....

No, really

Crunching like buggery but we're almost there. Yes, I know, I know. I said that last post too but the only thing left to test now is the actual release version post all the testing. It's been a challenge, it's been hell at some points - but beGods it's good.

We've had a few issues this month that needed addressing. One whole scene was chopped around, and another had to have a re-write due to current events which wasn't something I expected. As it stood it looked as though it was a commentary on recent political developments which isn't the usual thing I expect Dev's have to deal with (if anyone from Langley want to get in touch for my script for Chapter 5 for a heads up do drop me a line, my consulting rates are reasonable).

The domme module has also been through some...um... extensive testing as well, with some of it's sections having to be toned down and replaced. One module of that in particular was felt to be just too harsh. Given one of the concepts behind that module is that the player can follow along literally with what is said I didn't want anyone ending up seeing the doctor... Instead it's been replaced with "Kimmy" but you'll see what I mean shortly.

Oh, hai Kimmy

So what can you expect?

Around 3,000 stills, over 200 animations (30,000 renders give or take),

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words and more plot, lewds and bad jokes (as well as some good ones) than you could shake a stick at.

As to the animations they came close to 2GB before I started faffing with the file size. These are not btw, in the main, 180 loops. One of them is a 4 minute film...

Gameplay? Well we have the usual "all choices matter" of course and some more new locations with more code required for this chapter than in the previous three combined but we also have some nice variations such as...

Sex mechanics - Boffing someone? Not only fully animated but you choose the animations and can keep playing/varying them for as long as you want. You, not me, are in control of the lewds.

Missions - in freeroam you can now, if you choose, go on one of two missions available to help out the station staff.

Combat on Ophion - yep there's some more beasties out there for some of you

VR - Go old school and take up your sword vs orcs (with Gloria by your side ofc). and with four major endings each with their own variations I think there's something for everyone to enjoy here regardless of whether you're playing to win or lose.

Pool with Annie - with both strip and non strip variations. Fully animated pool, what the hell was I thinking? XD But it is quite fun and again losing isn't a game blocker.

The glam challenge - Fem MC trying to impress Chris? Then Sarah's dress up game is just the thing...

The power bus quest - Think Marcus could be right? Then you can put that one to the test...

The rude singalong - Can your MC sing a ruder song than a certain Chief Engineer?

The domme module - want a hands on experience? Chris has some new tricks, some games and quite a few devious things up her sleeve this time around - and stockings...

Caverns and Creatures - Where Sarah goes all out this time around - and you can level up if you're good with CoC.

Hidden stuff! - Lots of this as you'd imagine. Channel 7 is back of course, Penny has a 50 render comic (poor girl) and plenty of the usual hidden objects/comments for the player to find.

I have absolutely no idea how sane/stupid you lot will consider me once you've played this, but you'll know I haven't been sat on my arse just eating Jaffa Cakes that is for sure

Testing has been massively positive. Not just from the core testers but some of you have also been tapped on the shoulder and shown/tested parts of the game so I could get the widest views possible. I've really tried with this one.

A few more days and you'll have it and can judge yourself.

At this point I'm both knackered and terrified, I won't lie. It's been a lot of work, sometimes frustrating, and right now I'm just peering at the code and paths once again looking for any coding landmines that could trip things up. i.e. "if blogs = True is in there instead of "if blogs == True" the game would crash. A simple typo and yet your experience is marred. I'm lucky to have so many testers to help on something as complex as this, but there are a lot of possible combinations and ultimately the responsibility is mine not theirs.

The being knackered bit is one of the reasons I'm keeping my head down at the moment btw.

Other bits

I also appreciate I am waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind on commissions, but catching up on those and all correspondence is my priority once I've shipped.

Notty

PS: Did I mention the tutorial allows you to boff Jane?

 

[professorx10]

...after the above report, who couldn't look forward to seeing this coming update. It sounds like a biggie...

 

[anne O'nymous]

Yeah, and at that point there wasn't any solid information. All the information that kept getting leaked was filled with huge asterisks because the people leaking the information kept providing incorrect timelines and info. This is either because Notty kept changing her mind on things or because those users didn't really have the knowledge they thought they had.

Or could it be that making near to 30.000 renders for an update, (3.000 still renders, 27.000 for the animations), and writing dialogs for a count near to 70.000 words, this just for this update need a times that can't be effectively measured before hand ? [

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]
Think about it. Fuck up something in an animation, and it's a hundreds,

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, renders that you've to correct, then render again. This obviously take a time that can't be anticipated.

Yes, Notty have difficulties to meet her deadlines, but she know it and generally

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because of this ; something that can't be said about many. But in the same time, each update have more, in play time, quality, number of still renders, number of animations (a total of

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), and words count, than most finished games available here. All this in what is generally one fourth of the time needed to make those finished games.
There's people who took the bad habit to deal with fucked up updates, passing over glitches and all, because there's too many in a single release to care about it. Well, good for them. But in this case, just don't care about this game, dot. Notty do not meet her deadlines because she care more about what the players will think when playing, that what some think while waiting. It's called respect if I remember right...

Either way the post pointing out that at that point, everyone should just stop speculating on the release and the content because there was clearly a lack of knowledge about it and we should all just wait until it released.

Well, if you say so, yes, let's say that there's a lack of knowledge. That Notty never said when she started the compression [

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] [

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], that

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, or that she was

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(understand mostly the corrections for what the testers saw) for this update. Among many other things that she never said on Twitter or Patreon...

 

[jimjob]

I'm a firm believer that a released playable update should be for every player of the game to enjoy and not just those lucky that their path got chosen. The "complete chapter" release is one of my favourite design features of Heavy Five. Yes, it takes longer, but it's worth it in the end. I can play the way I want to play without hitting any TBA walls

 

[Akamari]

...

Alright, I admit you got me there. Thing is Notty felt the blackmail path needed to be changed significantly during the course of the remake. So, it was reimagined, and as a result it is subtler and slower. Not ideal, but that's still like an exception to the rule, so I wouldn't make a big deal out of it. It does pick up again somewhat in the next Chapter.

 

[NeimadFR]

Alright, I admit you got me there. Thing is Notty felt the blackmail path needed to be changed significantly during the course of the remake. So, it was reimagined, and as a result it is subtler and slower. Not ideal, but that's still like an exception to the rule, so I wouldn't make a big deal out of it. It does pick up again somewhat in the next Chapter.

Wow! Proving you wrong with your own walkthrough. That's cold!