Ren'Py Abandoned Heavy Five [Ch.2RS] [Nottravis]

[anne O'nymous]

Planetary outpost. Space stations are in space.

Shhh, I'm trying to looks like an educated native speaker.

 

[jamdan]

The last two updates have made me think that a lot of this game is style over substance. 4 chapters in and it still feels like we are in the prologue. Even if you find that to be exaggerated, you have to agree that the plot is still in it's early stages. Do we really need a billiards mini game when that's the case?
The updates already feel stretched thin anyway. If you don't want to play this multiple times, you'll find the game to be pretty short on a single playthrough. And you shouldn't have to play a game multiple times for it to be fun. It should be fun separately on every one of them separately if replayability is what the dev is going for.

And let's be honest, this is going to sound harsh, but the models in the game definitely look dated as well.

I was intrigued by this game when I played it for the first time, but over the years it has waned. I want to defend this game but it's getting more and more difficult.

It's the paradox of reworking over and over again.

You rework stuff to bring it up to standard -> Takes time away from making new stuff -> By the time reworking is done, the last "new" things you did are outdated again -> Rework more

Focusing on the GUI and minigames and stuff is missing the forest through the trees. Nobody plays this game, or did play this game, for the GUI and minigames.

It's like a chef putting all their attention into making the perfect garnish to put on their steak. But when push comes to shove, people aren't going to care what the fancy garnish is, they want the steak.

This game reminds me of another game I've dropped that had huge potential, but the dev constantly reworked everything to the point that it's never going anywhere. False Hero. A game very different than this, but it had great renders, an interesting story and now it's been reworked so many times that it's dead in the water. Guess what the developer is doing now? Yep, reworking stuff.

 

[whichone]

It's the paradox of reworking over and over again.

What you're referring to is like the expression"Painting the Forth Bridge".
A job that, by the time you've finished it, already requires starting all over again.
The term for this is "Sisyphean".

It's not really a paradox, literary or logical. A paradox is something which seems to contradict itself (or go against common sense), yet can still be true.
"I love being alone, but hate feeling lonely", or "I must be cruel to be kind" are literary paradoxes.
"This statement is false" is a logical paradox (if it's true, then it's false).
Liar paradox: If a liar says he's lying, is he telling the truth? But telling the truth means he's telling a lie...
If he's not telling the truth, then he lied when he said that he was lying, which means he's telling the truth.

 

[STNeish]

What you're referring to is like the expression"Painting the Forth Bridge".
A job that, by the time you've finished it, already requires starting all over again.
The term for this is "Sisyphean".

It's not really a paradox, literary or logical. A paradox is something which seems to contradict itself (or go against common sense), yet can still be true.
"I love being alone, but hate feeling lonely", or "I must be cruel to be kind." are literary paradoxes.
"This statement is false." is a logical paradox (if it's true, then it's false).

Actually, there is a paradox in there... the idea is that you do the work to finish the job, but doing the work means the job doesn't ever get finished, because it always generates more work. You do the work to finish, but paradoxically, doing the work means never finishing.

 

[whichone]

Actually, there is a paradox in there... the idea is that you do the work to finish the job, but doing the work means the job doesn't ever get finished, because it always generates more work.

Doing the job does not generate the job needing doing. That's simply down to time.
Even if they did not do the job, it would still require doing.

but paradoxically, doing the work means never finishing.

Doing the work doesn't mean never finishing, only not being able to work quickly enough does.

 

[STNeish]

The idea is that you do the job because the work needs doing.
The work consistently needs doing.
Doing the job does not generate the job needing doing. That's simply down to time.
Even if they did not do the job, it would still require doing. It simply slows the rate at which it needs doing.
It would just be a bigger job, if they didn't perform continuous work.
That's not a paradox, it's a Sisyphean effort.

Doing the work doesn't mean never finishing, only not being able to work quickly enough does.
That's not a paradox. It's a ratio. T1 (Time required to achieve update) : T2 (Time for next update to be required.)
If T1 is lower than T2, you get ahead of the curve.
If T1 is higher than T2, you get behind and end up with the task of Sisyphus.

I agree. What I'm saying is a sisyphean effort IS paradoxical, because the act counters the act.

 

[whichone]

I agree. What I'm saying is a sisyphean effort IS paradoxical, because the act counters the act.

The act does not counter the act, as doing the job is not what causes the job to need doing again. That absolutely would be a paradox.
It doesn't need doing again because you finished. It's external, unrelated circumstances which control if\when the job needs doing again.
So, no paradox.

It's largely circumstantial.
If you finish remastering\reworking all old stuff & it's as good as you can currently get it, then there is no "immediate start over".
If you finish & there's now a new way that makes it better, there is the potential for an "immediate start over".

 

[STNeish]

The act does not counter the act, as doing the job is not what causes the job to need doing again. That absolutely would be a paradox.
It doesn't need doing again because you finished. It's external, unrelated circumstances which control if\when the job needs doing again.
So, no paradox.

It's largely circumstantial.
If you finish remastering\reworking all old stuff & it's as good as you can currently get it, then there is no "immediate start over".
If you finish & there's now a new way that makes it better, there is the potential for an "immediate start over".

Ah, but that's what I'm saying. Doing the job IS what causes the job to need doing again, because the act of doing the job adds things TO the job. It's never finished as a result.

(I should add, I'm not being contrary here, nor am I offended or trying to offend, I'm just finding the discussion interesting, from a linguistic stance.)

 

[whichone]

Doing the job IS what causes the job to need doing again, because the act of doing the job adds things TO the job. It's never finished as a result.

Adding new things to the job does not necessarily mean that the job needs doing again.
It simply extends the scope and increases the size of the current job.
If not kept in check, then I agree that this can become problematic.

However, the job only needs doing again if the tech gets upgraded with new features, or if the dev learns new skills, which subsequently make the old work seem sub-par.
It's entirely circumstantial.
End of the day, if the dev goes back & remasters everything & they feel it's as good as they can make it, then the job is over.
Simple as that.
The job only becomes relevant\requisite again, if new tech or skills enable a higher level to be achieved.

(I should add, I'm not being contrary here, nor am I offended or trying to offend, I'm just finding the discussion interesting, from a linguistic stance.)

Don't worry, I'm enjoying the conversation & did not think you were being\trying to. Nor am I.
Same as you, I find it interesting. Thanks.

 

[ItzSpc]

It's the paradox of reworking over and over again.

You rework stuff to bring it up to standard -> Takes time away from making new stuff -> By the time reworking is done, the last "new" things you did are outdated again -> Rework more

Focusing on the GUI and minigames and stuff is missing the forest through the trees. Nobody plays this game, or did play this game, for the GUI and minigames.

It's like a chef putting all their attention into making the perfect garnish to put on their steak. But when push comes to shove, people aren't going to care what the fancy garnish is, they want the steak.

This game reminds me of another game I've dropped that had huge potential, but the dev constantly reworked everything to the point that it's never going anywhere. False Hero. A game very different than this, but it had great renders, an interesting story and now it's been reworked so many times that it's dead in the water. Guess what the developer is doing now? Yep, reworking stuff.

The major problem of "reworking" a game that is being developed is that it's like renovating a house before the construction is finished. Finish the damn construction of the house first, then worry about renovating it.

 

[whichone]

The major problem of "reworking" a game that is being developed is that it's like renovating a house before the construction is finished. Finish the damn construction of the house first, then worry about renovating it.

To use your own analogy, if you were half way through building the foundations and were not entirely happy with them, then you found a much better material\process to give you stronger, better, more efficient, effective, future-proof foundations, would you not want to apply these, before attempting to complete construction of your house on top of them?

 

[ItzSpc]

To use your own analogy, if you were half way through building the foundations and were not entirely happy with them, then you found a much better material\process to give you stronger, better, more efficient, effective, future-proof foundations, would you not want to apply these, before attempting to complete construction of your house on top of them?

In my opinion that's a terrible counter in regards to the construction industry analogy. Reason being is unless there is a serious structural flaw in the foundation which jeopardizes the entire project, i.e the structure cannot support itself, then you would still proceed with the project because you're working on a budget and schedule and have to meet that deadline. This is why buildings have blueprints and sometimes models before construction, once the blueprint has been laid out and the construction project has been approved, then project managers get the job done and don't like to suffer delays. The problem with Notty is she can't focus on completing her own project without getting distracted by "what could be better" and because of that, it's been delayed for 18 months, granted the exception of the accident, that is still quite a considerable amount of time.

 

[whichone]

In my opinion that's a terrible counter in regards to the construction industry analogy. Reason being is unless there is a serious structural flaw in the foundation which jeopardizes the entire project, i.e the structure cannot support itself, then you would still proceed with the project because you're working on a budget and schedule and have to meet that deadline. This is why buildings have blueprints and sometimes models before construction, once the blueprint has been laid out and the construction project has been approved, then project managers get the job done and don't like to suffer delays. The problem with Notty is she can't focus on completing her own project without getting distracted by "what could be better" and because of that, it's been delayed for 18 months, granted the exception of the accident, that is still quite a considerable amount of time.

Well, fortunately opinions are like assholes, we've all got one.
If you want to get pedantic, your original analogy was utterly nonsensical. You cannot renovate something that has not been built, it's literally impossible.

The analogy I provided was perfectly sound.
I'm building my own house (game), to my own specs. There is no deadline (unless self-imposed) & the only budget is set by me.
I can take as long as I please & spend as much as I wish.
If I want the best foundations, instead of lesser ones, I'll put them in. Why should I care that it takes extra time, if it makes my house (game) a better overall product?
Particularly if it also enables future expansion.
Exactly the same as the dev for this game.
The parallel is clear & obvious.

Completing this project quite obviously does include "what could be better", for her. They are not independent of each other.
She presumably wants the product to be as good as she can make it. Understandably so.
Asking "how could I have done that better?" is a surefire way to improve.
If that's what she wants for her project, then that's what's right for her project.
Who are we to say any different?

I really do not care how long it takes her to get it to a position where she's happy with it. I'll happily play it, when she does.
In fact, I prefer that she takes longer and makes it better.

 

[Hullahopp]

What if is this the

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?

Nothing, i think. What if Notty is actually a man? What if we're all in the Matrix? What if this is all just someone's dream, like in Inception? Or a really weird LSD trip?

The Dream of Dsuang Dsi
Two thousand years ago my master
said to me pointing at a butterfly,
I have dreamed something confusing,
confusing and I do not know why—
A butterfly, he said, yes I was,
dancing happily in the sun,
and now I do not know if my dream
has just ended or just begun,
oh I do not know, he continued,
what is the truth, which one could I be,
which one of us dreamed the other,
which one is reality?
I laughed, it is you, Dsuang Dsi,
you are Dsuang Dsi, you!
He smiled and said, the butterfly
also believed its truth!
He kept smiling, I just shrugged,
but it sent shivers down my spine,
I started thinking but found no answer
for two thousand years of time,
now I believe that nothing is real,
all is but pictures and poetry,
that Dsuang Dsi dreamed the butterfly,
the butterfly him, and all three of us, me.

Fortunately, I am too stupid for philosophy. I like the game = Problem solved.

 

[anne O'nymous]

What if Notty is actually a man?

It wouldn't be the first time a girl-looking anonymous isn't what it looks like.


But well, what he said just prove that rule 29 is long forgotten...

 

[Krynh]

Only the UI and some animations are getting re-worked (plus the intro). The rest of the renders aren't as that's already been done once.

 

[Idontplay]

Nothing, i think. What if Notty is actually a man? What if we're all in the Matrix? What if this is all just someone's dream, like in Inception? Or a really weird LSD trip?

No, we just need a little bit of

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!

Fortunately, I am too stupid wise for philosophy. I like the game = Problem solved.

Fixed.

 

[imnotoverhere]

It finally happened... The "Abandoned" tag... I'm surprised...

Good. It's about time this game got the "abandoned" tag. There hasn't been anything meaningful added in years and nothing done in 18 months.

 

[dhasghdashjdkajs]

It finally happened... The "Abandoned" tag... I'm surprised...

Good. It's about time this game got the "abandoned" tag. There hasn't been anything meaningful added in years and nothing done in 18 months.

Agree, its an absolute joke.

 

[STNeish]

I'm puzzled.
There was a post earlier that explained the delay, notably, there was a car accident that took the developer out of action for a while.
So why the vitriol? Why the push to have the game declared abandoned (when it clearly isn't), and why the peevish satisfaction at getting it so declared?

I don't quite understand what you people are getting out of it.