QSP Jack-o-Nine-Tails [v2.3] [ImperatorAugustusTertius / qwertyu12359]

[Jushak]

Man, I remember playing the original game years ago and doing the extreme start with the loser without too much trouble... But with this new version I feel the increased housing etc. costs combined with the - what I personally feel are completely unnecessary - stat/skill decay just make the game un-fun to play on normal difficulty.

I first tried the extreme start out of curiosity and well, it was brutal. That is fine. It should be. The original's extreme option basically just needed you to struggle the initial hardship of training the first few slaves after which it became meaningless.

I then started another game at normal difficulty + "ignore story" enabled, with B rank in most everything except sex skills which started at nothing, with ~7k money in the pocket.

400 days later I'm down to my last $350 and live in Anthill with ~$300 monthly bill.

I've managed to increase Strength to strong, Personality has stabilized to C- due to where I live (essentially making spending any starting points in it pointless, since where I live apparently is more important than what I actually do in thegame...), Allure swings from Repulsive to Irresistible depending on how much micro I can be bothered to do to keep it up, Libido first shrivelled to Impotent and now is back to Libidious after I figured how to manage it.

I guess I'll have to drop the difficulty to easy and see if that makes things less overly punishing for my taste.

All the complaining aside, it is nice to see this old master piece being maintained, even if I don't agree with all the changes being made.

 

[aumhs]

I suspect you are makign some basic mistake somewhere. How do you start your 7k money playthrough?
To what ranking to you train the slaves you sell, and how long does it take you? Do you train slaves form the market, or are you doing guild requests?

As a side-note, I find living in the Bull quarter on Respectable living standards much better than living in the serpent quarter on a lower one, as it allows you getting free food from the gentleman's club. But I suspect your problems start earlier.


EDIT: Oh, and I bet your allure swings are from Hygiene, nothing else could explain swings that much. I really recommend setting your assistant (or your slave, if they are willing) to bathe you, then you don't have to pay much attention to that.

EDIT2: And if you have a slave that's close to selling, you can salvage your run by taking a loan. Takign a 1k loan that allows you to get the time to finish training and selling a B+ slave is often a good strategy.

 

[Jushak]

I suspect you are makign some basic mistake somewhere. How do you start your 7k money playthrough?
To what ranking to you train the slaves you sell, and how long does it take you? Do you train slaves form the market, or are you doing guild requests?

Custom start. Character creation points can be converted to sparks at 10:100 ratio. With start that allows you to live in Outcasts quarter and all stats and skills except sex techniques at B rank you can start with 7300 sparks in the bank to set yourself up on normal difficulty. With easy difficulty you don't even need to care about points.

[As a side-note, I find living in the Bull quarter on Respectable living standards much better than living in the serpent quarter on a lower one, as it allows you getting free food from the gentleman's club. But I suspect your problems start earlier.

Need to get to walking pace before running, sadly. I know there's a lot of stuff that makes life easier in the long run, like the 5 quest items from central plaza - especially the item that auto-casts auspex for free and allows access to debug menu.

EDIT: Oh, and I bet your allure swings are from Hygiene, nothing else could explain swings that much. I really recommend setting your assistant (or your slave, if they are willing) to bathe you, then you don't have to pay much attention to that.

Mood primarily, which is easy enough to fix, just takes stamina/money depending on how I want to accomplish it. Upgrading interiors of the house gave a decent enough boost, with need for only occasional visit to brothel or elven laid to get rid of the "I'm bored of just sex and training slaves" mood malus.

EDIT2: And if you have a slave that's close to selling, you can salvage your run by taking a loan. Takign a 1k loan that allows you to get the time to finish training and selling a B+ slave is often a good strategy.

The bottlenecks are obedience and devotion. I've had slaves where I've literally trained almost every non-sex skill to B/A rank and trying to reward/punish appropriately without raising spoiling, only to have them stuck at 3-5 obedience range for 20-30 days since I can't get them to do anything that would grind down their pride.

I think the highest level slave I trained was C+, capped by devotion, occassionally swinging between C- and C+. That is the part I'm most baffled about honestly, since I don't remember ever having that issue in the original.

I did also have few slaves that would randomly get -5 taming progress every night they didn't sleep in dungeon, but at least the wiki had nothing that would explain that to me. That also doesn't explain rating changes during the day without any refused orders or reward/punishment needed.

As for saving the run, I'd guess with easy difficulty giving +4 obedience training quick D-/D+ slaves for the time bonus should be a breeze. I'll just leave a save to that point if I ever feel like bashing my head on a wall again to recover it.

Edit: FWIW I did have two bad contract choices in the mix there towards the end that cost me a lot of money - first a corpulent and torpid one I was to train as concubine that I butchered and had to replace with one of my fog-found girls. Then a pony girl that took 30+ days to accept pony training because while she loved animal training being a pony was a stretch too far apparently. I remembered ponies being a pain in the ass, but not to that extent. I also have no idea how she kept gaining pride despite the fact the worn items alone should have given her -2 every day, unless I'm misreading the wiki.

 

[congorin]

is personality that important? tbh i still didnt know for sure what variable it affect, is it obedience? because until now im ignoring it and im fine so why bother.
like, in my last game i choose to live in serpentine(?), the one that cost around 200 ish spark, the cost of living is so cheap it barely dent your economy even moreso if you have passive income like egglayer+cows.

so what is the point of high personality?
if for example i can produce S+ slave (i usually sell at 13.000 spark) consistently in 100 days for 300 spark per decade => 13.000-(300*10)=10.000 spark net income per 100 days.
then when for example if i live in white town instead so the cost of living is 1.000 per decade and somehow my maxed out personality halved the training time by half to 50 days => 13.000-(1.000*10)=3.000 spark net income per 50 days, 6.000 per 100 days.
lower personality actually giving me more net income. this is assuming white town residence still cost 1.000 spark per decade, its have been so long ago i probably forgot how much its cost and/or its have been lowered past patch 1.9 so pardon me if im wrong.

 

[Jushak]

is personality that important? tbh i still didnt know for sure what variable it affect, is it obedience? because until now im ignoring it and im fine so why bother.
like, in my last game i choose to live in serpentine(?), the one that cost around 200 ish spark, the cost of living is so cheap it barely dent your economy even moreso if you have passive income like egglayer+cows.

From what I remember it affects all talk actions, i.e. how likely your Influence Slave-actions are to succeed. A high one basically gives you free 2-4 obedience in first 3 days and makes Encourage more reliable way to manage mood without any costs.

if for example i can produce S+ slave (i usually sell at 13.000 spark) consistently in 100 days for 300 spark per decade => 13.000-(300*10)=10.000 spark net income per 100 days.

The game gets easier the farther you get between quests halving all stamina costs, free auspex etc. Even more so once you can just stroll into fog repeatedly for extra profit and free girls when you feel like it.

then when for example if i live in white town instead so the cost of living is 1.000 per decade and somehow my maxed out personality halved the training time by half to 50 days => 13.000-(1.000*10)=3.000 spark net income per 50 days, 6.000 per 100 days.

Your math is way off. That would be 16k profit for 100 days (2 slaves sold at 13k sell price totals 26k - 10k living costs over 100 days) vs your current 10k profit.

I highly doubt higher personality anywhere near doubles training speed, but it gives you a jump start. The benefits start becoming lesser the longer your train time is though, replaced by other mood management costs you'd need to use to expedite training.

Passive income from barn would likely make a huge difference though in cutting down food expenses. I was planning to delve into that "soon (tm)", but never got around that "soon (tm)". I guess I could just throw my current assistant to barn and go pick up Isabella to replace her at some point - I had completely forgotten her existence and just trained my own assistant instead early on until I randomly saw her encountered before quick-loading earlier save to pick her up at better opportunity.

 

[congorin]

From what I remember it affects all talk actions, i.e. how likely your Influence Slave-actions are to succeed. A high one basically gives you free 2-4 obedience in first 3 days and makes Encourage more reliable way to manage mood without any costs.

i usually ignore slave's mood when devotionis lower than 3, so i rarery use encourage, encourage also started to be innefective after 4/5th usage so i only use it when absolutely necessary. 2-4 early obedience is neat, but i seems to always got minus obedience instead. well, maybe iower personality malus always affecting me, so much so that i unconsciously develop a playstyle to counteract it, i assume its just how the game is, not because of my lower personality.

Your math is way off. That would be 16k profit for 100 days (2 slaves sold at 13k sell price totals 26k - 10k living costs over 100 days) vs your current 10k profit.

im sure im gonna screw the math thingy somehow someway, that is why i crank the personality effect to unbelievable level just in case to prove the point. like, even 5% increase of overall training speed is a stretch imo let alone double.

 

[Jushak]

i usually ignore slave's mood when devotionis lower than 3, so i rarery use encourage, encourage also started to be innefective after 4/5th usage so i only use it when absolutely necessary. 2-4 early obedience is neat, but i seems to always got minus obedience instead. well, maybe iower personality malus always affecting me, so much so that i unconsciously develop a playstyle to counteract it, i assume its just how the game is, not because of my lower personality.

I guess with slaves that have very long train time it doesn't matter, since a) you're in no rush to raise their skill level so difference between 2-3 sessions per rank and 10-20 sessions per rank is meaningless and b) you can power through obedience eventually by sheer volume of sessions (i.e. generating habit) and more sessions at low mood => more punishment chances => more awareness. Longer time should also mean that collars have time to generate taming.

im sure im gonna screw the math thingy somehow someway, that is why i crank the personality effect to unbelievable level just in case to prove the point. like, even 5% increase of overall training speed is a stretch imo let alone double.

I could see 1-5% in long term "projects", but likely higher % for shorter training times. Essentially it's the difference between how many days you waste early on to get to the point you can actually start basic training.

For example, now that I changed obedience difficulty to easy (+4 obedience straight out the gate) it was difference between being able to teach S nature artist to paint day 1 without issue vs needing to beat her to submission to deal with her total of 11 resistance from stats. I'd guess successful explaining + mood increase from encourage could accomplish the same for less obstinate slaves.

Now that I re-checked the the obedience formula, positive mood does indeed affect obedience - if it's high enough. That would explain the fluctuation I've seen then, with dirt etc. lowering mood enough to just change the rating.

 

[aumhs]

is personality that important? tbh i still didnt know for sure what variable it affect, is it obedience? because until now im ignoring it and im fine so why bother.

From my understanding, but I'm not 100% certain:
It is one of the stats influencing the slaver's aura (what exactly goes into aura isn't mentioned ingame anywhere, I think).
Slaver aura vs slave aura influences for some actions how likely the slave is to obey (the toileting rule, actions like put in place, not sure what exactly else).
It also influences the cap on daily taming growth from clothing.
And I think it influences how effective rewards and punishments are.


EDIT: And eating in the club, which needs a certain living standard, saves a lot of money. Doesn't work if you need S+ food of course, but that's only necessary when you want S+ strength anyway, which I'd consider an end-game luxury.



EDIT2 to avoid double post, didn't see the reply:

The bottlenecks are obedience and devotion. I've had slaves where I've literally trained almost every non-sex skill to B/A rank and trying to reward/punish appropriately without raising spoiling, only to have them stuck at 3-5 obedience range for 20-30 days since I can't get them to do anything that would grind down their pride.
[...]
I also have no idea how she kept gaining pride despite the fact the worn items alone should have given her -2 every day, unless I'm misreading the wiki.

Most rules lower pride each day, but only some can lower it all the way to 0. The easiest for that is the deny-toileting rule, that one can even be followed on negative obedience if your aura is strong enough. A second really good one, if your slave follows it, is the vaginal beads one, but that requires an arleady somewhat obedient slave.
If pride increases, the most likely culprits are:
- you're not setting enough rules to follow
- the slave is disobeying rules, and you aren't forcing them
- you are failing during talk actions (like put in place)

I'd say that your first goal should be to make a few C+ slaves, which doesn't require any devotion, and no A+ skills. Avoid ones with problematic stats (extremly bad stamina, weight or pride, mostly). You can in theory go for B+ slaves right after your first C+ one, but I recommend doing a few to get a feel for breaking through early obedience problems.

EDIT3: Oh, and the wiki item descriptions are outdated. Pride lowering got removed from some items. If the clothign screen doesn't say that it lowers pride, then it doesn't.


EDIT 4: forgot to mention devotion. Easiest way to get it up is successfull dating or sex rewards. Only once each per day, I think. And you can get a boost from a potion, but that's more late-game.
Besides that, you get some passive devotion growth if the other training stats are high enough, and the slave is happy.

 

[Shad000w]

Is this version of the game more canonical and in line with the original lore? As far as I remember in the original version everything was run by the vatican and 4 great houses. I was very surprised when, after playing the game a couple of years later, I saw a story about some weird emperor and some bizarre barbarians standing under the walls of Eternal Rome. Probably I've got some strange mod of the game.

 

[Jushak]

EDIT2 to avoid double post, didn't see the reply:

Most rules lower pride each day, but only some can lower it all the way to 0. The easiest for that is the deny-toileting rule, that one can even be followed on negative obedience if your aura is strong enough. A second really good one, if your slave follows it, is the vaginal beads one, but that requires an arleady somewhat obedient slave.
If pride increases, the most likely culprits are:
- you're not setting enough rules to follow
- the slave is disobeying rules, and you aren't forcing them
- you are failing during talk actions (like put in place)

I'd say that your first goal should be to make a few C+ slaves, which doesn't require any devotion, and no A+ skills. Avoid ones with problematic stats (extremly bad stamina, weight or pride, mostly). You can in theory go for B+ slaves right after your first C+ one, but I recommend doing a few to get a feel for breaking through early obedience problems.

EDIT3: Oh, and the wiki item descriptions are outdated. Pride lowering got removed from some items. If the clothign screen doesn't say that it lowers pride, then it doesn't.


EDIT 4: forgot to mention devotion. Easiest way to get it up is successfull dating or sex rewards. Only once each per day, I think. And you can get a boost from a potion, but that's more late-game.
Besides that, you get some passive devotion growth if the other training stats are high enough, and the slave is happy.

Now playing on easy, I've figured the issue was too high reliance on Fear. I'm not sure if high fear (or despair caused by it) is the thing that craps on Devotion, but the mood penalty from fear certainly doesn't help, since it appears high mood is what is needed to clear it.

I was literally training for 30+ days at worst with devotion growth progress stuck at -10/10 because of that and getting rid of stage 3 fear is very slow. The +4 baseline obedience from easy obedience rules obviously helps since I don't need to focus on picking low ego slaves, but now that I'm not always pushing fear to 2/3 to actually train the slaves in anything at all I'm usually seeing first devotion tick within first 10 days. Oh and also manually making the assistant clean up and bath the slave before end of day since mood checks (including suicide, assassination attempts etc.) are apparently made BEFORE assistant's assignments.

Barn will likely also make a major difference now that I've got it set up, even if I did actually have to go to brink of game over to set it up due to not wanting to train another slave for buffer money first.

 

[aumhs]

The wiki lists how training stats change here:

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It's not completly up to date, but most things are right. Despair is really bad for devotion. Technically only if the slave is unhappy, but despair lowers happiness as well.
Fear only lowers devotion if it's maxed out (5 fear), and only if unhappy as well.

High fear alone isn't too much of a problem, I tend to get most slaves to 2 to 3 fear early (depending on starting obedience).

 

[congorin]

I could see 1-5% in long term "projects", but likely higher % for shorter training times. Essentially it's the difference between how many days you waste early on to get to the point you can actually start basic training.

i understand your point, its ironic that personality in which you need to invest spark for, is more useful at early game than later stage when spark is not much concern. like, i have already go past needing to spam D rank slaves as fast as i humanly can to stay afloat anymore, its S+ slaves for me.
early training for me is not to start training skill, but to instead increase awareness, taming, and habit (and fear too, i guess) by forcing rules and punishment, and when they start to obey, i fish merit by using skill training bit by bit to devotion level 3, and then the skill training phase start.
a found out that below devotion 3, slaves cant have max mood that is needed for max training result, so i do rather focus to increase her aura out to devotion 3 when they can be happy enough to earn consistent max training result, so much so that i often wasting time earning traits, etc, because their skill is max out at every specialization but their devotion isnt maxed out so i cant sell them yet.

 

[Anotherdude669]

ImperatorAugustusTertius
qwertyu12359

Any word on that pull request opened last week by marcus_avn :

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?

I did some brief testing and it won my it works on my machine award, displayed here:

 

[Ddraigon]

How do I start Rosa quest?

 

[SpoonMeSauce55]

What does indolent trait actually do? Does it make slaves produce more milk or prevent them from mind break when put in the barn? Or does it make cow training faster?

 

[aumhs]

As far as I know, it works like all the specialization traits:
Requires less obedience to train in the skill, training the skill progresses faster, and training the skill gives a happiness boost.

That said, pony and gladiatrix traits both have another bonus on top of that (racing and fighting bonus), not sure if that's the same for the cow trait.

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

ImperatorAugustusTertius
qwertyu12359

Any word on that pull request opened last week by marcus_avn :

You must be registered to see the links

?

I did some brief testing and it won my it works on my machine award, displayed here:

View attachment 4121990

Haven't had time to try it out but it sounds solid so expect it'll be our new baseline.

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

... unnecessary - stat/skill decay

dev builds are newer and no longer include that:

https://f95zone.to/threads/jack-o-n...ugustustertius-qwertyu12359.390/post-14806958

 

[Jushak]

dev builds are newer and no longer include that:

https://f95zone.to/threads/jack-o-n...ugustustertius-qwertyu12359.390/post-14806958

Glad to hear that! My save is around ~800 days now and even after starting the game at everything except sex skills at B+ the only non-sex skill that has reached S rank is Lecturer (think around 600 days?). I've lost count how long I've had Magna Magnifika on auto-cast for magic to reach A+. I shudder to think how many slaves I'd have to whip to death to ever reach A+ let alone S+ skill in whips.

All in all, good change.

 

[leonardo2009]

View attachment 2401516

Overview:
At the crossroads of all universes, shrouded in Fogs stands Eternal Rome, a city of fortunes and calamities, opulence and crushing poverty. Human life is cheap, but its worth can be calculated precisely. Especially by those of the Slaver's Guild. This is a dirty business, and business is booming.

Step into the shoes of a slave trainer. Acquire unique girls with different personalities. Bend them to your will and remake them as you see fit. Then sell them for shining sparks and become rich, or keep them as your trophies. Only you can decide, for you are their sovereign master. You, the Jack-o-nine-tails!​

Thread Updated: 2024-08-26
Release Date: 2024-08-26
Original Title: Валет Плетей
Original Developer: OldHuntsman
Current Developers: ImperatorAugustusTertius / qwertyu12359
Censored: No
Version: 2.3
OS: Windows
Language: English
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Community Development since 2014:

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great work