Belle

Developer of Supermodel & Long Live the Princess
Game Developer
Sep 25, 2017
3,187
10,583
People don't read. Belle is explaining that since the thread was created. Over and over. What would change a long description posted? Nothing, if people don't read.
That's more or less it. I am patient enough that I can take a little time to explain myself once in a while, so that's okay. I don't think a huge disclaimer in the first post would make much of a difference to that. Walls of text are boring anyway. :)

I do hope my game will speak for itself regarding matters like these eventually, but we're probably not quite there yet. There's still a lot of unresolved potential hanging in the air.
 
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Emperor_Arcturus

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2017
1,467
1,263
That's the end of Primrose's current content, yes. You bring up an interesting point though. Would you have preferred if I printed a message on the screen to inform you that you've reached the end of a character's content in the current version of the game, or should I keep it like it is now?
Honestly, I think that yes it would be useful, but at the same time it's really up to you. The only reason I'm not saying yes completely is that I do enjoy the exploration factor of not really knowing whether or not it's completely finished, it's fun to go around wondering if there's something else to do.
 
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Goblin Baily: DILF

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 29, 2017
7,319
15,650
That's more or less it. I am patient enough that I can take a little time to explain myself once in a while, so that's okay. I don't think a huge disclaimer in the first post would make much of a difference to that. Walls of text are boring anyway. :)

I do hope my game will speak for itself regarding matters like these eventually, but we're probably not quite there yet. There's still a lot of unresolved potential hanging in the air.
there are 2 kinds of game develpers in the world; the first kind does what they thing is right sometimes listenint to suggestions and opinions. They either fail or create a masterpiece. The other kind is the people pleasers. Bioware belongs to the second category and they effed up big the last 2 games
 
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macadam

Chicken Bubble Butt
Game Developer
Aug 5, 2016
7,011
10,182
And I hope you follow that path. The game in very good and has great potential, especially is different, something that is a fresh breath in adult games.

People don't read. Belle is explaining that since the thread was created. Over and over. What would change a long description posted? Nothing, if people don't read.
that would change the fact Belle is not in necessity to post comment again and again about the same parts..
 

Jokerzwylde69

Member
Jul 7, 2017
138
29
It may be here somewhere but i can't seem to find how to increase my stats. I have gone through the whole 10 days and not found a single opportunity to train nor do i have any clue what my stats are. I just recently found this and totally enjoy the storyline but can't get anywhere due to not enough "insert stat name here" to do that
 

Goblin Baily: DILF

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 29, 2017
7,319
15,650
It may be here somewhere but i can't seem to find how to increase my stats. I have gone through the whole 10 days and not found a single opportunity to train nor do i have any clue what my stats are. I just recently found this and totally enjoy the storyline but can't get anywhere due to not enough "insert stat name here" to do that
apparently playing primrose's path gives you charisma and pervertness. And a nice spell tha when implemented will put any girl in danger. mwahahaha
 
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Belle

Developer of Supermodel & Long Live the Princess
Game Developer
Sep 25, 2017
3,187
10,583
It may be here somewhere but i can't seem to find how to increase my stats. I have gone through the whole 10 days and not found a single opportunity to train nor do i have any clue what my stats are. I just recently found this and totally enjoy the storyline but can't get anywhere due to not enough "insert stat name here" to do that
Don't worry about that yet. Abilities will only start to mean something in version 0.3, if everything goes as planned. You should also be able to see your current abilities then.
 

Jokerzwylde69

Member
Jul 7, 2017
138
29
Don't worry about that yet. Abilities will only start to mean something in version 0.3, if everything goes as planned. You should also be able to see your current abilities then.
but how do i accomplish anything without any stats i enjoy the game but i am really frustrated that i can't do anything that requires a skill check.
 

Belle

Developer of Supermodel & Long Live the Princess
Game Developer
Sep 25, 2017
3,187
10,583
but how do i accomplish anything without any stats i enjoy the game but i am really frustrated that i can't do anything that requires a skill check.
The only skill checks right now (unless I'm forgetting anything) are in the tutorial section and are meant for New Game+, so you're not missing out on anything (they are faked at the moment). Remember that this is an early version of the game still, so there are limits to how much you can accomplish yet, abilities or not.
 

gestved

Engaged Member
Aug 18, 2017
2,411
2,561
complain about having to replay a game so small is incredibly petty. You have the skip button, you can save anytime you want, including before choices, you can't even screw anything up at this point of the game, you don't even need to play the old parts of the game after the tutorial if you don't want, just go and focus on primrose path that is what's new in this version

Belle is doing a great job with the game, it's not like DmD where the game is huge and on the last update you have to replay everything again to prepare to chapter 2
 
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Goblin Baily: DILF

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 29, 2017
7,319
15,650
complain about having to replay a game so small is incredibly petty. You have the skip button, you can save anytime you want, including before choices, you can't even screw anything up at this point of the game, you don't even need to play the old parts of the game after the tutorial if you don't want, just go and focus on primrose path that is what's new in this version

Belle is doing a great job with the game, it's not like DmD where the game is huge and on the last update you have to replay everything again to prepare to chapter 2
I would be happy if LLtP had the same size of DmD...
 
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atlas114

Engaged Member
May 4, 2017
2,674
4,067
so playing v0.2 per @Belle 's recommendation and after the initial dialogue I am already impressed with the writing and character development. it's sad to say but the bar for coherent sentences in English and humor mixed in has been set so low :/.

will comment more after a full playthrough.
 
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atlas114

Engaged Member
May 4, 2017
2,674
4,067
Observations (will edit as I play along)

When you are negotiating (or rather being volun-told) for 5 coppers/day to study and you try to get 10, you are foiled and forced to accept the 5.

However the option to try for 10 coppers remains and the outcome is the same. @Belle are you planning on removing this due to MC failing the game check for charisma?
 

gestved

Engaged Member
Aug 18, 2017
2,411
2,561
Observations (will edit as I play along)

When you are negotiating (or rather being volun-told) for 5 coppers/day to study and you try to get 10, you are foiled and forced to accept the 5.

However the option to try for 10 coppers remains and the outcome is the same. @Belle are you planning on removing this due to MC failing the game check for charisma?
belle plans to have new game+ in the future, where you can carry your points from the last playthrough to the new one, so it will be possible to negociate

just ignore all the restrictions because it's not possible to actually get any of the scenes behind them at this point
 

Raneth

Newbie
May 26, 2017
71
172
Okay, let me get a couple of things straight right away because you guys seem to be making some arguments that don't make sense in the context of what kind of game I'm making.

What non-porn (and non-Ren'py, just so we keep some lazier designs out of the equation) games can any of you mention that allow you to backtrack to make choices all over again without using saved games? Games with time-traveling protagonists don't count. Can you name even one?

The main reason you feel the way you do in this situation isn't that you want to cheat, per se. That's just another symptom of the larger issue. The big reason is that most porn games are poorly designed, their authors far more concerned with their story and graphics than with gameplay mechanics. "Choices" in most porn games mean that you are given a series of options where one option is the best one, with the rest being gradually (or binary) worse. If you pick the wrong option you are going to lose out on sex scenes in many cases. That's not the kind of game I'm designing. If I ever write choices like that, call me out on it, because that means I've been writing without thinking. Choices in my game(s) are there to be actual choices, not to be a quiz that determines how much content you will see. They determine the path the protagonist will walk through the game, with different choices leading to different scenes. There isn't a right path and a wrong path, at least not one determined by those kinds of choices.

Don't look to porn games when thinking about game design. Look to "regular" games instead. Let's take the two main inspirations for LLtP: Persona and Ace Attorney. Both those game series not only don't let you step back to redo choices, they even take deliberate steps to make save scumming less attractive (though Ace Attorney loosened these restrictions somewhat with the last two entries). Persona doesn't even let you save unless you are in designated save rooms, and you can sometimes play for more than an hour without being given an opportunity to save even once.

If you misclick a choice and complain that you're not being allowed to rollback and make it all over again, then I'm sorry to say that that's on you. Most games would never let you go back like that anyway. At most a game like Persona might ask you, "are you sure?" before going through with something of significance. LLtP allows you to save anywhere, anytime. You can save scum to your heart's content, and I will never restrict that (though I'm hoping to include an option where people who like such restrictions can start a game with them).

This is not something I do to prevent "cheating." Such a claim relies on there being a right and a wrong choice for you to take, and that rolling back would let you pretend that you made the "right" choice to begin with so that you don't "lose." That scenario is meaningless in LLtP. I restrict rollbacks because I want each choice to be meaningful. I want the player to think before he clicks, not click, observe, rollback, and click again. I also don't want to punish players for taking one choice over another.

The complaints about this feature reveal a misunderstanding about what I'm trying to do and a long-lasting problem with the game design behind most porn games, to the point where people now expect porn games to be poorly designed and want tools to combat such design themselves. I'm telling you that you won't need such tools when playing my game because I don't intend to make it poorly designed. There's going to be a long road to get there, and I will surely make missteps along the way, but that is what iterative development is all about.

Feel free to disagree. I'm not trying to appeal to absolutely everyone out there. I have a vision for what I'm making, and that's what I'm following through with. There are far too many thoughtless porn games out there already. I'm trying to do something different with mine.
this is a really interesting idea, and a philosophy that i think alot of devs could learn from and makes me think of Japanese VN's where you don't right and wrong answers, just story driving choices. But right now i feel we have gotten to used to games with clear paths though the choices we make, Like: chose A to bang mom chose B to bang sis.
But when we have stuff like "i need more courage to say this", then i go "ok time fire op the console to get me some courage" and when that doesn't do anything i just get annoy and think it might be made to taunt the player, not that the game hard locks my stats or isn't programmed in yet.
This might also be because i don't really think alot about my choices in a game when it's this early in development.
Also couldn't you just disable rollback in ren'py? that always makes me think that i need to save scum to see all of the content.
i'am definitely interested in where this game is going, since i think a good story and design is more
important to start up with than fancy.... anything :)
 
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