Ren'Py Completed Long Live the Princess [v1.0.1] [Belle]

[indiehindi]

I appreciate the sentiment, but I believe my answers show that I understand their concerns and won't necessarily downplay them. Of course, that last guy failed to present any specific scenarios he had issues with, so at that point his feedback has zero value to me, but the overall point that was aired by those posters is genuine, and I tried to respond to it as such.

But beyond all the pretty words, the gist of it is that this game definitely isn't for everyone and it never will be. I'm satisfied making niche games, but sometimes there's value in explaining to people why it is niche and why that isn't necessarily a problem.

With my first comment here I was pretty clear, still you've asked me to be precise and I just did that. What else there for me to make it clear-er?

Here again, I would never ever guessed that failing Primrose would eventually lead me to bad ending. As I would follow walktrough and read the comments here so that I could know. And now that I know, I'm feeling wasting time.
I made it clear, dont care what you consider your game to be niché or not, I do enjoy it, I do appreciate it. I did not anyhow here or there disregard your efford and time spent on this game. I'm quite sure I made it clear what the issue is. Now you say such things I've stated have no value for you... Talk about downplay huh?

The problem is endless possibilies and combinations, and the player would NOT know missing out or not so the player would be forced to play it over and over again.

The solution is also simple. Let us have more info by making ''To Do List'' titles clickable and giving info or insight on what could be done next.

Is it specific, precise & clear now?

 

[indiehindi]

Nope the game is clear from start to finish if anyone is stuck that's on them

Could you tell me please where did the game tell you that if you were to fail Primrose you would have a bad ending?

 

[Ekcho666]

Could you tell me please where did the game tell you that if you were to fail Primrose you would have a bad ending?

Seriously the hints are scattered throughout the game

 

[Ekcho666]

With my first comment here I was pretty clear, still you've asked me to be precise and I just did that. What else there for me to make it clear-er?

Here again, I would never ever guessed that failing Primrose would eventually lead me to bad ending. As I would follow walktrough and read the comments here so that I could know. And now that I know, I'm feeling wasting time.
I made it clear, dont care what you consider your game to be niché or not, I do enjoy it, I do appreciate it. I did not anyhow here or there disregard your efford and time spent on this game. I'm quite sure I made it clear what the issue is. Now you say such things I've stated have no value for you... Talk about downplay huh?

The problem is endless possibilies and combinations, and the player would NOT know missing out or not so the player would be forced to play it over and over again.

The solution is also simple. Let us have more info by making ''To Do List'' titles clickable and giving info or insight on what could be done next.

Is it specific, precise & clear now?

This doesn't hand-holding.

 

[Ekcho666]

I have played through this game 3 times and have never failed once.

 

[Belle]

The Primrose situation is a special case that I intend to look into anyway.

But seriously -- and stay with me here on this crazy, crazy concept -- but when a game puts up a giant ticking clock every time you take an action, sending characters to warn you about the impending consequences of disregarding said clock, gives you an entire quest related to stopping that clock from reaching zero, and the whole reason for the clock existing is deeply intertwined with the very basis of your quest (Merek's murder), then well...

... how does failing that quest not scream "bad ending" to you? In what reality is failing that quest considered an okay outcome?

I mean, even if I hope to make some alternate solution for games where that happens, the point above still stands. I'm flabbergasted that this is even a discussion.

 

[indiehindi]

Seriously the hints are scattered throughout the game

Facepalm me as you wish but I got you by the balls now sorry what I'm about to do to you.

The PREMISE of the game is that ''do what you want''. If you just were not to be a dev-cock sucker and were to actually read my first comment you WOULD understand what I was talking about. But sure you didnt.

You have only to options
1. Play the game entirely as you wish. Visit locations & characters, interact with them as you wish = fail & lose = have a bad ending.
2. Do everything precisely, which requires you to have pre-knowledge of failing Primrose would leadyou to bed ending, meaning you have to do everything correctly within the dosens of combinations of Locations & Characters & Abilities & Interactions and do not fail even one time = get good ending.

Now heres your conclusion you cock sucker;
You have to play the game atleast TWICE (which im totally fine with it) to be able to not miss out those important things.

The dilemma is; If you were to atleast play it TWICE, how come game's premise could be ''Play randomly, do whatever you want, figure it out yourself'' ???

The hints abviously does not work as people firstly fall for the ''walkthrough'' secondly to the fake experiences of cocksuckers like you here. So people either give up playing or come here complain.

I did not even complain, I just asked for a better info system.

Here have a you.

 

[professorx10]

The Primrose situation is a special case that I intend to look into anyway.

... how does failing that quest not scream "bad ending" to you? In what reality is failing that quest considered an okay outcome?

I mean, even if I hope to make some alternate solution for games where that happens, the point above still stands. I'm flabbergasted that this is even a discussion.

If I may, I think the reason this is even a discussion evolves from a difference in premise in approaching playing the game.

IMHO, with indihidi we have a player who assumes there will be explicit flags or warnings in the 'adventure' game he thinks he's playing...like a path with warning signs. Ah...if life were only like that we'd ALL make fewer mistakes.

The fact that the game abounds with implicit flags and warnings 'goes right over his head' because He's good at literally following instructions, but not thinking 'what does that mean' before he proceeds and thus, totally misses out and blames the Dev. This is like someone who can follow written directions fine, but cannot read a MAP!

I'm afraid many people today are victims of our 'educational system' which seems to be designed to produce this kind of thinking creating a generation of 'factory worker' mentality who 'follow their leaders' blindly. I believe it is part of the reason we're in the trouble we're in politically...but that's another story.

Thank you so much, Belle, for creating the most intelligent and entertaining game on F95 that lets one make mistakes, correct oneself and feel like the problems in real life. Bravo!

 

[Ekcho666]

The Primrose situation is a special case that I intend to look into anyway.

But seriously -- and stay with me here on this crazy, crazy concept -- but when a game puts up a giant ticking clock every time you take an action, sending characters to warn you about the impending consequences of disregarding said clock, gives you an entire quest related to stopping that clock from reaching zero, and the whole reason for the clock existing is deeply intertwined with the very basis of your quest (Merek's murder), then well...

... how does failing that quest not scream "bad ending" to you? In what reality is failing that quest considered an okay outcome?

I mean, even if I hope to make some alternate solution for games where that happens, the point above still stands. I'm flabbergasted that this is even a discussion.

Facepalm me as you wish but I got you by the balls now sorry what I'm about to do to you.

The PREMISE of the game is that ''do what you want''. If you just were not to be a dev-cock sucker and were to actually read my first comment you WOULD understand what I was talking about. But sure you didnt.

You have only to options
1. Play the game entirely as you wish. Visit locations & characters, interact with them as you wish = fail & lose = have a bad ending.
2. Do everything precisely, which requires you to have pre-knowledge of failing Primrose would leadyou to bed ending, meaning you have to do everything correctly within the dosens of combinations of Locations & Characters & Abilities & Interactions and do not fail even one time = get good ending.

Now heres your conclusion you cock sucker;
You have to play the game atleast TWICE (which im totally fine with it) to be able to not miss out those important things.

The dilemma is; If you were to atleast play it TWICE, how come game's premise could be ''Play randomly, do whatever you want, figure it out yourself'' ???

The hints obviously do not work as people firstly fall for the ''walkthrough'' secondly to the fake experiences of cocksuckers like you here. So people either give up playing or come here complain.

I did not even complain, I just asked for a better info system.

Here have you.

Lol, you got me by nothing. The game is clear on the matter.

But please stay mad

PS I never said you had to play twice. I clearly said I played 3 times and never failed once as in all three times I made it through the game with no problems.

 

[indiehindi]

The Primrose situation is a special case that I intend to look into anyway.

But seriously -- and stay with me here on this crazy, crazy concept -- but when a game puts up a giant ticking clock every time you take an action, sending characters to warn you about the impending consequences of disregarding said clock, gives you an entire quest related to stopping that clock from reaching zero, and the whole reason for the clock existing is deeply intertwined with the very basis of your quest (Merek's murder), then well...

... how does failing that quest not scream "bad ending" to you? In what reality is failing that quest considered an okay outcome?

I mean, even if I hope to make some alternate solution for games where that happens, the point above still stands. I'm flabbergasted that this is even a discussion.

Thank you! For atleast acknowledging what I was trying to explain.
With the Primrose questline I'm totally fine with your design here, and surely you're right by saying how come the time ticking is not a sign for you. Yes it is. And when I encountered that I just came here to have info & insight. Continued to play and found out that, I played so randomly, having random interactions that I lack knowledge & abilities (my character) to be able to save Primrose and it was too late. You miss that out, by playing the game as you yourself have designed it to be played.

That is why I kept saying and asking for more in-game info. Please understand that this has nothing to do with the diffuculty of the game, its just the info and how it is presented.

And I'm sorry if I have sounded sarcastic or rather harsh previously.

You ofcourse dont have to agree, you could just say ''no, this is the way i like it and not gonna change or add anything'' I would be fine with it.

 

[indiehindi]

If I may, I think the reason this is even a discussion evolves from a difference in premise in approaching playing the game.

IMHO, with indihidi we have a player who assumes there will be explicit flags or warnings in the 'adventure' game he thinks he's playing...like a path with warning signs. Ah...if life were only like that we'd ALL make fewer mistakes.

The fact that the game abounds with implicit flags and warnings 'goes right over his head' because He's good at literally following instructions, but not thinking 'what does that mean' before he proceeds and thus, totally misses out and blames the Dev. This is like someone who can follow written directions fine, but cannot read a MAP!

I'm afraid many people today are victims of our 'educational system' which seems to be designed to produce this kind of thinking creating a generation of 'factory worker' mentality who 'follow their leaders' blindly. I believe it is part of the reason we're in the trouble we're in politically...but that's another story.

Thank you so much, Belle, for creating the most intelligent and entertaining game on F95 that lets one make mistakes, correct oneself and feel like the problems in real life. Bravo!

Thanks for atleast understand me. Sorry but I need to disagree. I do not need a pop-up on my screen to warn me right before important decisions or moments while im playing. Infact such things you've said so far is the exact reason whileI actually liked this game. But I only see a necessity for more info on ''To Do List'' and the titles in it.

I'm good at following instructions but again I did not need this game to tell me how to do or figure out things by myself. Thats the point tho. While I was enjoying it randomly, missed the point of being able to save Primrose.

 

[Meushi]

... how does failing that quest not scream "bad ending" to you? In what reality is failing that quest considered an okay outcome?

I haven't played the recent releases which have endings (waiting for complete so I don't need to restart again), so things might have changed around how hard you're beating the player over the head about this.

But in prior releases, I don't think it was obvious that successfully getting Primrose freed didn't 'fix' the problem. Particularly given persistent statements that there was no time limits yet, so why would anyone take any notice of your clock?

Not a problem for me personally, because I look at the code. Might be for others though.

 

[Solomon Grundy]

You have only to options
1. Play the game entirely as you wish. Visit locations & characters, interact with them as you wish = fail & lose = have a bad ending.
2. Do everything precisely, which requires you to have pre-knowledge of failing Primrose would leadyou to bed ending, meaning you have to do everything correctly within the dosens of combinations of Locations & Characters & Abilities & Interactions and do not fail even one time = get good ending.

This, right here, is where you lose me. You don't have to do "everything correctly within the dosens[sic] of combinations of Locations & Characters & Abilities & Interactions and do not fail even one time = get good ending."

This is simply not true. You can do things in any order, and the only time crunch is keeping Primrose out of jail. And you are given plenty of time to do that. How or why anyone fails at that particular quest just mystifies me, unless they are just blindly clicking away at things waiting for a sex scene to happen.

You have to play the game atleast TWICE (which im totally fine with it) to be able to not miss out those important things.

You don't, though. I hate to break this to you, and I'm honestly not trying to brag here, but I got the good ending on my first play through, I searched the thread a bit for help on the Fairy Queen's riddle, but that's it as far as I can remember. The game really isn't that difficult if you think about what it's telling you and the clues you are finding.

Again, you seem to be under the mistaken belief that there's a time crunch when there really isn't, outside of this one quest.

 

[Belle]

Particularly given persistent statements that there was no time limits yet, so why would anyone take any notice of your clock?

I have never said that about the Primrose timer. That time limit has always been in effect, ever since it was first added to the game a long, long time ago. More importantly, meta knowledge people may have (wrong or not) from this forum does not influence my game design.

 

[Ekcho666]

This, right here, is where you lose me. You don't have to do "everything correctly within the dosens[sic] of combinations of Locations & Characters & Abilities & Interactions and do not fail even one time = get good ending."

This is simply not true. You can do things in any order, and the only time crunch is keeping Primrose out of jail. And you are given plenty of time to do that. How or why anyone fails at that particular quest just mystifies me, unless they are just blindly clicking away at things waiting for a sex scene to happen.


You don't, though. I hate to break this to you, and I'm honestly not trying to brag here, but I got the good ending on my first play through, I searched the thread a bit for help on the Fairy Queen's riddle, but that's it as far as I can remember. The game really isn't that difficult if you think about what it's telling you and the clues you are finding.

Again, you seem to be under the mistaken belief that there's a time crunch when there really isn't, outside of this one quest.

Yeah, I don't know where this person got the idea I said you had to play twice. When clearly said I played three times and got through the game fine each time

 

[indiehindi]

This, right here, is where you lose me. You don't have to do "everything correctly within the dosens[sic] of combinations of Locations & Characters & Abilities & Interactions and do not fail even one time = get good ending."

This is simply not true. You can do things in any order, and the only time crunch is keeping Primrose out of jail. And you are given plenty of time to do that. How or why anyone fails at that particular quest just mystifies me, unless they are just blindly clicking away at things waiting for a sex scene to happen.


You don't, though. I hate to break this to you, and I'm honestly not trying to brag here, but I got the good ending on my first play through, I searched the thread a bit for help on the Fairy Queen's riddle, but that's it as far as I can remember. The game really isn't that difficult if you think about what it's telling you and the clues you are finding.

Again, you seem to be under the mistaken belief that there's a time crunch when there really isn't, outside of this one quest.

What happened is the first time I encountered Primrose time limit I came back here and tried to follow walkthrough. And of course it did not work. So I started reading the whole thread (I actually abused the searc bar for this thread) anyways,. Of course I'm not randomly clicking at things
But I was late to save Primrose because I lacked abilities, then I thought myself maybe this is not how you play it.
So I got the idea that for certain things you have to complete / interact with certain characters at right time right location.
And of course as the game is not linear this also doesnt work or lets say make sense.
And these are all because firstly the misleading walkthrough secondly the lack of info in ''to do list''

 

[Solomon Grundy]

What happened is the first time I encountered Primrose time limit I came back here and tried to follow walkthrough. And of course it did not work. So I started reading the whole thread (I actually abused the searc bar for this thread) anyways,. Of course I'm not randomly clicking at things
But I was late to save Primrose because I lacked abilities, then I thought myself maybe this is not how you play it.
So I got the idea that for certain things you have to complete / interact with certain characters at right time right location.
And of course as the game is not linear this also doesnt work or lets say make sense.
And these are all because firstly the misleading walkthrough secondly the lack of info in ''to do list''

I'm fairly certain the Primrose investigation is self contained. Meaning everything you need to do to solve it comes from the investigation itself. Find the clues and talk to the right people. Belle may have to correct me on this, but I don't think there are any ability checks involved at all, at least not that I can think of.

 

[indiehindi]

Yeah, I don't know where this person got the idea I said you had to play twice. When clearly said I played three times and got through the game fine each time

You did not, it was a conclusion I gave to you. You're not even reading why bother responding?

 

[Belle]

I'm fairly certain the Primrose investigation is self contained. Meaning everything you need to do to solve it comes from the investigation itself. Find the clues and talk to the right people. Belle may have to correct me on this, but I don't think there are any ability checks involved at all, at least not that I can think of.

I believe that is correct, and it is another deliberate choice. Since the investigation happens relatively early in the story, I didn't want to put players in a position where the investigation started (with no forewarning) and they would have no chance to gain the abilities needed, leaving their game in an unwinnable state through no fault of their own (in contrast to the situation currently discussed).

The Primrose investigation is my response to events like finals or holidays in the Persona games. It's a lengthy, time-limited event that forces you to abandon your regular routines and focus on a single task for a while, keeping things fresh.

Edit: Actually, what I said is not entirely correct. I did make one concession when I designed that quest: You need to have learned how to solve large secrets, I believe. But since that is the central focus of the game progression anyway (unlike abilities, which may be handled in many different orders at many different paces), I thought it an acceptable requirement at that stage in the story. Every aspect of the game has encouraged the player to learn how to solve large secrets ASAP anyway, so anyone who isn't at least close to managing that when the Primrose investigation pops up has been almost wilfully negligent. This requirement was also the primary reason why the time limit for the investigation is quite generous. I wanted players who did not know how to solve large secrets to have one final chance to gain that ability.

 

[Ekcho666]

You did not, it was a conclusion I gave to you. You're not even reading why bother responding?

I clearly did read it which is why I was confused about this statement. It's not my fault your bad at expressing your points