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Shardoom

Spunkbubble
Donor
May 4, 2017
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We know what the 'technical' definition is belle, god knows everyone has seen it a fucking MILLION times around the forums.

On F95 ntr is more commonly used as an umbrella term for any kind of 'sharing' content or stuff designed to inspire jealousy, rage etc in the mc/player.
 

Shardoom

Spunkbubble
Donor
May 4, 2017
1,596
1,885
So with that being said, thanks for letting me know. Good luck with the future of your game but I'll have to unpledge as its not really for me I'm afraid.
 

zazzaro

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
1,479
883
None of them would be going behind the player's back (unless you specifically make them do so, I guess. I probably wouldn't prevent that from happening if the player absolutely wants that to happen, depending on story concerns). You would be giving the characters away (probably without losing the potential to keep them later), not having them taken from you. What I'm describing has nothing to do with NTR.
Again I don't care about this content one way or the other, but the original scene was also skippable almost immediately and for some people it still was quite a big deal... for some reason.
 

skullker

Member
Sep 29, 2017
148
457
Speaking of NTR, I have a question to those of you who strongly disapprove of it:

Previously, some people have suggested a way to not change Callie's sexual orientation and instead hook her up with other girls to make her happy that way, perhaps allowing the player to secretly watch as the two girls have hot lesbian sex with each other. What are your feelings about this kind of optional story? I'm not saying it's something that is guaranteed to be in the game, but the thought appeals to me for a number of reasons. Yet it would result in characters having sex with each other without the player being directly involved, which is why I'm asking this question. I honestly don't even consider it to be anything remotely close to NTR (at least based on Urban Dictionary's description of it), but seeing as some people react in an almost absurdly strong fashion to even the idea of NPCs having sex with each other, I figured I might as well ask.
Well before I give my opinion on NTR let me explain what NTR is for me: Once my character actively pursues a female NPC she shouldn`t get fucked by someone else. If my character is stealing her from a boyfriend/girlfriend great but don`t force me to watch them fuck. Once I try to get into her panties, make her off-limits for any potential character.


It would still suck for me and many others to share her with someone else. If it`s only in a 3some okay that`s fine but if she has a relationship with another character besides the MC, then please no. I have seen too many games in 2018 alone going down a NTR-path and pretty much ruining it for me. If you wanted to add this, you should have announced it early on and not in a 0.6 build. The stuff with Thaddeus was already a punch in the gut, but at least you made it avoidable. You should stick to your original idea and not give in to sharing/NTR crowd.
 

Belle

Developer of Supermodel & Long Live the Princess
Game Developer
Sep 25, 2017
3,191
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Once I try to get into her panties, make her off-limits for any potential character.
Okay, done! I already solved that problem in my post about this potential feature above. I suggest reading it again, because you appear to have misinterpreted it in a big way.

You should stick to your original idea and not give in to sharing/NTR crowd.
My original idea would have been way worse for the NTR-haters. It has modified over time to tell a better, sexier story, not because I'm afraid of hurting anyone's feelings. People can whine about the existence of content they will never touch all they like. It's not going to make one iota of a difference to how I design this game.
 

skullker

Member
Sep 29, 2017
148
457
Okay, done! I already solved that problem in my post about this potential feature above. I suggest reading it again, because you appear to have misinterpreted it in a big way.


I know, that you said the sharing would be optional.


My original idea would have been way worse for the NTR-haters. It has modified over time to tell a better, sexier story, not because I'm afraid of hurting anyone's feelings. People can whine about the existence of content they will never touch all they like. It's not going to make one iota of a difference to how I design this game.
Oh I did understand it. I simply gave my definition of NTR. It was simply a statement, that I don`t like it when another NPC touches one of the LIs once the romance has been initiated. It can depend on the game when that point is reached, but a simply rule of thumb is: once the MC starts helping her, having naughty "accidents" and so forth, that point has been reached for me. However that can depend on the type of character that the LI is. If she is introduced as a huge slut I won`t get all suprised and butthurt when I see her fucking someone else. However if the character is introduced as a shy, introverted and lovely person, then I will definetly get angry if she suddenly starts acting like a slut and whores herself out.

In the end it is your game, design it how you like it. Simply keep in mind that adding certain stuff will turn people off and that is not confined to NTR, some people will drop a game that has incest, others hate bestiality. I will look forward to your next update, because it will most likely be make or break for me. However I wish you best of luck with the game and lots of patreons and as mentioned I look forward to your next update, even if it might turn me away from the game.
 
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Belle

Developer of Supermodel & Long Live the Princess
Game Developer
Sep 25, 2017
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I will look forward to your next update, because it will most likely be make or break for me.
This isn't related to the next update, or any specific update at all. It's just something that I might end up doing at some unspecified point in the future. If you are a patron, you will already have access to some information about the nature of the next version.
 

RustyV

Conversation Conqueror
Game Developer
Dec 30, 2017
6,966
33,658
If you think about it NTR is the basis of one of the Western Worlds greatest stories, the Iliad. Helen leaves her husband for another man, unfortunately the husban just happens to have access to an army.
and the prevention of NTR is the underlying theme of the Odyssey.
Not saying anything for or against NTR, just saying its been a literary vehicle since the start of literature.
So Belle is just using a very old plot devise that has its place in moving a story forward.
Personally I'd rather see Callie hookup with the sister even if it is only a method used by MC to extract more intel. Which would be pimping out his sister I guess, that Pixie is a bad influence.
 
Aug 16, 2016
365
908
I hate NTR, but I understand the difference between NTR, Voyeur, and Swinging, which seems to be a distinction most people here can't make. The Evelyn thing would be Voyeur, since she's not in a relationship with MC.

I don't particularly like to share or watch either, so I'd prefer to have the option to be the selfish little bastard I am and have the girls to myself. I realize that would be nuts IRL, but games are a fantasy. If there is an option to hook Callie up with other girls, I just wouldn't select that option. It would be no skin off my back if an option existed for it, I find it absurd when people throw forum tantrums or threaten to stop pledging over an option they can easily skip.
 

baneini

Engaged Member
Jun 28, 2017
2,009
3,115
I hate NTR, but I understand the difference between NTR, Voyeur, and Swinging, which seems to be a distinction most people here can't make. The Evelyn thing would be Voyeur, since she's not in a relationship with MC.
I agree with everything you said.
Also I find it ludicrous people associate ntr with the mc's family members and just plain strangers having sex. How many people do you feel should be reserved for your harem? Are you roleplaying Genghis Khan and plan to impregnate the entire nation?
NTR should be reserved for your WIFE having sex with someone else, not anyone else. Your gf cheats? Ok it's not your wife the contract between you is less strong. Your mother has sex with someone else? Ok, thats normal and expected so its not ntr. It's not about jealousy. Your dog has sex with another dog? Some people here would call that ntr.

Just because a thing can be technically had sex with doesn't justify you having strong emotion of possession towards it.
 

Djd3

Newbie
Jun 7, 2017
79
38
I think you three don't really understand what NTR means but are using that term to describe something else. You're lumping NTR, voyeur, and other people having sex into one big category and calling it, well... NTR for some reason. NTR is not about seeing other people have sex. It's not about them having sex in the first place. It's not about the MC not being involved. Here, allow me to quote Wikipedia and Urban Dictionary on the matter:
I think my comment suits perfectly the Urban dictionary description to be honest.
For me (said my sexual preferences) its pretty much the same if a man or a woman try to get into the Callie or Evelyn panties and, in the limits of how much a game can do, make me jelous.
But since Callie is lesbian i'm not gonna be strict about it since i think would be nice for her to keep her sexual preferences, make her bisexual its nice but a complete change of sexual tastes is not the way to go in my opinion.

With that said i didnt mean to be annoying, you asked us our opinions and i gave you mine. I know there are alot of branches when comes to the ntr genre soo i state here mine soo we can never talk about again and hopefully not get annoyed by that:

I dont like sharing/the idea of sharing or anything related to that since im a jelous person but there are some exeption for me cause its a game and not real life. As long as the MC has the dominant role on the action i can be fine with it (which means only FFM sexual actions), before anyone start saying shit to me with ''dominant role'' i mean the MC is the one that does penetration to others and doesnt recieve it (I'm not mother tongue and no other terms came to my mind). I know you don't plan to add homosexual contents that why i said FFM.
Most importantly the characters should not give the feeling of getting ''stolen'' from the MC like last update Thaddeus/Evelyn scene (i read you dont want make Callie one like this im just saying), even tho i read a really nice comment theory about Evelyn wanting MC to see her and possibly ''get rescued'' that was really really nice!
Sorry again if my opinion obout ntr were harsh or got you annoyed keep up the good work.
 

Belle

Developer of Supermodel & Long Live the Princess
Game Developer
Sep 25, 2017
3,191
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before anyone start saying shit to me with ''dominant role'' i mean the MC is the one that does penetration to others and doesnt recieve it (I'm not mother tongue and no other terms came to my mind). I know you don't plan to add homosexual contents that why i said FFM.
While I don't agree that a male being penetrated necessarily equals homosexuality, it's not something you're going to see in this game anyway, have no fear.

Most importantly the characters should not give the feeling of getting ''stolen'' from the MC like last update
The scenarios I've been describing today have had nothing to do with anyone getting "stolen" away from anyone. Unlike the Evelyn / Thaddeus thing, this Callie thing would not have her take the initiative against other women, but would require you to go out of your way to match her with women of your choice. You can't steal something that is freely given, and in this case nobody will steal anything from you if you don't freely give it, anyway.

Sorry again if my opinion obout ntr were harsh or got you annoyed keep up the good work.
Thanks! I didn't feel like your opinion was harsh, only that it is... misguided, for lack of a better word. As long as we all know where we stand, that's fine with me.
 

Djd3

Newbie
Jun 7, 2017
79
38
While I don't agree that a male being penetrated necessarily equals homosexuality, it's not something you're going to see in this game anyway, have no fear.
Dude im starting to like you a bit too much if you keep saying things like this haha.
I was just trying to you use my word carefully to not start another discussion about another possibly ''hot topic'', we are still talking about the Thaddeus/Evelyn scene today when the argument shouldve ended a week ago since it was cleared and sealed then, soo yeah...
 
Aug 15, 2017
252
578
I probably wouldn't consider it ntr, especially if you retconned their relationship a little to make it clear that she has no interest in the MC (she's not exactly behaving that way right now).
I would disagree with this. Callie has made it pretty clear that she isn't sexually interested in Dickon; she refuses to kiss him and does not enjoy his sucking on her breasts at all. Callie is very open and confident about her body, a bit of an exhibitionist, and she is unreserved and flirty in her demeanor--she enjoys attention. While Callie is overtly sexual, I do not see her reaction to the protagonist as being fundamentally different than that of a singer who enjoys performing for people. Of course, I may be wrong, but that's how I interpret her character.
This isn't something that was even part of my original plans for the game, and I still haven't decided if it's something I want to spend time on. On the other hand, because the MC is a guy and the entire game is first person (excluding Side Stories if we ever unlock that Patreon goal), the opportunities for lesbian content are very limited without something like this. If I were to include this option, I would most likely not "lock away" the character being matched up with Callie, but Callie herself would obviously be off-limits until the MC potentially finds the spell to change her sexuality. It would have minimal impact on the main story, but would serve as an alternative for those who want to make Callie happy but feel uncomfortable about using magic to permanently change a core part of her personality, something I wasn't even aware could be an issue until a couple of fans helpfully pointed it out to me.
I think I would really enjoy being Callie's wingman and helping my best friend find someone special, but I do foresee a few pitfalls in this. First, you've already established that sexual orientation is a core aspect of a character's personality in the game. I would find it implausible for every character except for the lesbian to be bisexual, and a character's bisexuality should be a more important attribute than something that exists because the player picks a particular choice. While I trust that you'd give the matter serious thought before implementing anything, I do think the pool of potential partners should be limited and their bisexuality should be more than superficial. On the other hand, you do intend to introduce a spell that allows the player to alter the sexuality of characters, and I imagine there'd be players who'd enjoy making every female character bisexual, which, in turn, would potentially make your job much more complex if you chose to implement it.
Well before I give my opinion on NTR let me explain what NTR is for me: Once my character actively pursues a female NPC she shouldn`t get fucked by someone else. If my character is stealing her from a boyfriend/girlfriend great but don`t force me to watch them fuck. Once I try to get into her panties, make her off-limits for any potential character.
While I don't want it to seem like I don't feel your opinion is valid, I do feel I need to point something out. Long Live the Princess is a non-linear game with copious interconnected variables. If we just take the content already in the game, the player can easily begin a romance, i.e. earn love points, with Primrose just by reading books and increasing the Perversity ability. There is currently no way to have any romance with Callie. This makes it difficult to have some cutoff where the game decides a player has locked on a particular character. It's easy for the player to know whom they like, but, without some immersion breaking choice screen along the lines of "Pick One," it would difficult for Belle to anticipate where to place such a flag. While it is probably possible, it would be more difficult in a game like this than a more linear branching story.
If you think about it NTR is the basis of one of the Western Worlds greatest stories, the Iliad. Helen leaves her husband for another man, unfortunately the husban just happens to have access to an army.
Well, in Herodotus's version of the story, Paris and Helen shipwrecked in Egypt on the way home. King Proteus of Egypt sent Paris on his way, but he kept Helen as an honored, untouched guest until the war was over and Menelaus came to retrieve her. In Euripides's version, Hera had Hermes spirit Helen away to Egypt while Paris took a doppelganger of Hera's creation to Troy with him. As long as there have been NTR stories, there have been those who prefer a version of the story without the NTR. :winkytongue:
 

Belle

Developer of Supermodel & Long Live the Princess
Game Developer
Sep 25, 2017
3,191
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think I would really enjoy being Callie's wingman and helping my best friend find someone special, but I do foresee a few pitfalls in this. First, you've already established that sexual orientation is a core aspect of a character's personality in the game. I would find it implausible for every character except for the lesbian to be bisexual, and a character's bisexuality should be a more important attribute than something that exists because the player picks a particular choice. While I trust that you'd give the matter serious thought before implementing anything, I do think the pool of potential partners should be limited and their bisexuality should be more than superficial.
I haven't thought a lot about it myself yet, admittedly. I would probably limit the available pool of options, not only because of what you just pointed out, but also because it would be a nightmare to implement this for "every" girl in the game. I don't want this to be some kind of major feature, but instead a fun option for people to play around with if they want. I love options.
 
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Aug 15, 2017
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I haven't thought a lot about it myself yet, admittedly. I would probably limit the available pool of options, not only because of what you just pointed out, but also because it would be a nightmare to implement this for "every" girl in the game. I don't want this to be some kind of major feature, but instead a fun option for people to play around with if they want. I love options.
I look forward to whatever you may implement in the game. I share your love of options, and I've always felt more ways to impact the story and more dynamicity to be a positive, at least up until a certain point. There is such a thing as too much of a good thing. ;)
 

Belle

Developer of Supermodel & Long Live the Princess
Game Developer
Sep 25, 2017
3,191
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I posted a today about who people's favorite girl in the game is at the moment. If you're a patron at any level, don't forget to vote. :)

It's surprisingly exciting to watch the development as the votes come in. Right now Belle and Primrose are in the lead but really close to each other. I hadn't expected Primrose to get this many votes, actually.
 
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