VN Ren'Py Abandoned Lord of Imagination [Ep. 4.5 NTR] [AgentGames]

[Rinbael]

From now on each update will probably take some four months. Especially since my understanding of Daz is extremely basic. I started learning about the software a few days earlier because I was going to make a small game named "School Dreams 4: An ode to Goblinboy" as a side project that I'd have released here for free but that idea is now on hold indefinitely. I've linked my first render to show you guys the level of my skill currently so you can expect how bad the renders will end up looking. Note that it utilizes very default models because I genuinely don't know what I am doing.

If DAZ is the main issue you are having one thing I cold suggest is posting some of your renders in the DAZ 3d art thread here:https://f95zone.to/threads/daz3d-art-show-us-your-dazskill.4764/ a lot of the people in there are really helpful and will give you some good feedback if you ask, they helped me improve my renders a lot when I first started learning how to use DAZ.

There is also quite a few good tutorials on youtube and also some good ones on the DAZ store that you could pirate by searching for tutorials on something like

You must be registered to see the links

.

In order to find the assets used for the characters someone like Papa Ernie might be able to tell you what they are if you ask him but off the top of my head Carl is Darius 7 for sure. Also one thing I could suggest is if you are able to find out what assets are used maybe look into upgrading them to a genesis 8 version if possible.

The game is quite old now and in my opinion some of the models look kind of dated compared to some of the games out now and since some of the genesis 8 models look slightly different from their older versions it might be a good way to keep some of the similarities of this game while distancing yourself from it.

I agree with what the other posters were saying and the older writer kind of fucked up and cost the game the ability to pick up some traction get people interested in it and slightly changing the models used by upgrading them to genesis 8 might be a good way to do that. I do think that you should first focus on your own game to get some experience and knowledge before trying your own version of this one just to refresh yourself and do your own thing.

 

[tlarsen]

God dammit!

 

[tlarsen]

Why is it always the acutally good and well made games this happens to!!!

 

[Nospamwss]

 

[Grunky's Grandpa Cheese]

Okay, I've slept a little since last night and first things first, I feel like I should clear up a few things.
1. While Sznuk provided many reasons, upon pressing, the main reason of him leaving is that he simply cannot work on the game any longer.
2. He locked me out of Patreon the moment he told me that he was leaving yesterday, which gave me no way of clearing the air with the long-term patrons. Few of whom had given more than a hundred dollars to this game.
3. He believes since renders are all his and the concept, however rudimentary, was created by his friend, I have no "legal right" to the game. Keep in mind that this is despite me writing almost all of the Patreon posts, creating opportunities for cross-promo and, well, writing almost the entirety of the fucking game.
4. Despite me giving multiple ways to continue the game, he has made it clear that he simply doesn't want to see the game continued in any way shape or from. However, he is okay with me starting from scratch with different but similar characters.

Now in light of all this, there are three announcements I want to make.
1. I've decided that will continue creating the game on my own. That doesn't mean I want to see the abandoned tag removed just yet because as Sznuk is adamant about not giving his permission to continue creating the game, Rich is reluctant to join the team. That means I have to not only do the writing but also the coding and creating the renders. So simply put, I don't know the sheer amount of work that will actually be required in doing all of this. Especially since my experience with Daz is not only extremely amateurish but also the fact that I only have a 2060 mobile so it'll take me almost twice as long to create the same render.
2. I won't be continuing the NTR path of the game simply because I can't do it and not take like 2 more years to finish the game. The reason I've fought adamantly to continue NTR in the game was that I didn't want to disappoint the most loyal patrons but the most loyal patrons have already been disappointed the most. I might give it a semblance of an end AFTER I am done with the base game but it's not a certainty. From now on each update will probably take some four months. Especially since my understanding of Daz is extremely basic. I started learning about the software a few days earlier because I was going to make a small game named "School Dreams 4: An ode to Goblinboy" as a side project that I'd have released here for free but that idea is now on hold indefinitely. I've linked my first render to show you guys the level of my skill currently so you can expect how bad the renders will end up looking. Note that it utilizes very default models because I genuinely don't know what I am doing.
3. The game will be released here for free. With what has just happened I know I can't seriously expect for anyone to actually pay for the game. Money was never the first reason why I was creating the game. Of course, it was not a non-issue but just not the primary one. So I'll be creating this game for free from now on. I am guessing the biggest reason Sznuk didn't want to see the game continued was that he didn't want someone else to reap the benefits of his own hard work. This way that doesn't happen but the game doesn't get axed either.
So yeah tl; dr: The game's renders from now on will be shit, there will be no NTR but the game will trudge on at a very slow pace.
And it will be free as it has always been here, now just officially.
As much as I hate it, the game will continue WITHOUT Sznuk's approval.

If you're in need of a partner or want to look for one, I do recommend checking out KissKiss Studio. I think someone else on here also recommended them. They're making a game pretty similar to LOI, and can possibly help you with a lot of the technical aspects of the game, such as finding the LOI character models, rendering, coding etc.

 

[Sihil]

I am gonna say something weird and maybe not directly in line with anyone else, but except when you can find a partner for the renders that is experienced, I would advise you to first make that side game you talked about. A shorter well defined project will teach you a lot of the skills needed to enable you to pull off a bigger project like this. Remember making a game is in the end besides all the different skills needed also about project management.

Yeah I am thinking the same. I just have to get good at daz first. The creators tell me it can take anywhere from one to three to five months to get good at that. So let's see how that works out.

Sihil I dont think Sznuk can stop you from continuing the game and story. Maybe just change the game name but since you're the writer from the remake. i dont think there is any legal binding that you cannot continue on the project. Just change the characters name, locale and some back story and you're in the green. From the conversation screenshot, he is an ass. I'll suggest you go with the suggestion from DA22 and try to make a small demo.

It would give you an idea on the work scope,effort and time required. If you feel you can manage then you can do it solo else you'll get help. From personal experiences in the tech sector, you'll need partners or you'll end up burning out and the game will never come to fruition

I'm not worried about retaliation from Sznuk, legal or otherwise. It's just that I've, even though unintentionally, ended up burning the patrons and I don't want that to happen again. So the idea DA22 gave me is great. The only real variable is how long it'd take for me to get good at Daz.

Alright I know there's at least a couple of you degenerates out there that know exactly which assets were used. Now is your time to shine.

That discord conversation man, yikes. Big yikes. I'll leave it at that.

For what it's worth - I also think that starting with your own, *small*, project would be a good way to go. It will give you experience in rendering and coding while allowing you to put time into something that is truly yours. It gives you a fresh slate to create whatever you want to create without the pressure of this mess bearing down on you as you try to learn.

It also gives you time away from this project and, specifically, how it ended. Allows you to get some perspective on both the technical requirements and the situation itself. Who knows, after you're done with that you may just decide that it isn't worth continuing this project - and while that will suck for some, I don't think anyone could blame you. You're willing to try, that's enough for most of us.

Right now, I do want to finish LoI at any cost, I don't think that'd change in a few months but we'll see.

If DAZ is the main issue you are having one thing I cold suggest is posting some of your renders in the DAZ 3d art thread here:https://f95zone.to/threads/daz3d-art-show-us-your-dazskill.4764/ a lot of the people in there are really helpful and will give you some good feedback if you ask, they helped me improve my renders a lot when I first started learning how to use DAZ.

There is also quite a few good tutorials on youtube and also some good ones on the DAZ store that you could pirate by searching for tutorials on something like

You must be registered to see the links

.

In order to find the assets used for the characters someone like Papa Ernie might be able to tell you what they are if you ask him but off the top of my head Carl is Darius 7 for sure. Also one thing I could suggest is if you are able to find out what assets are used maybe look into upgrading them to a genesis 8 version if possible.

The game is quite old now and in my opinion some of the models look kind of dated compared to some of the games out now and since some of the genesis 8 models look slightly different from their older versions it might be a good way to keep some of the similarities of this game while distancing yourself from it.

I agree with what the other posters were saying and the older writer kind of fucked up and cost the game the ability to pick up some traction get people interested in it and slightly changing the models used by upgrading them to genesis 8 might be a good way to do that. I do think that you should first focus on your own game to get some experience and knowledge before trying your own version of this one just to refresh yourself and do your own thing.

I am honestly a little unsure of how exactly genesis 3 models differ from genesis 8 but yeah, I'll consult him. And thanks, it is Darius 7, I'll get it asap.

Thank you guys for your support.

 

[Sihil]

If you're in need of a partner or want to look for one, I do recommend checking out KissKiss Studio. I think someone else on here also recommended them. They're making a game pretty similar to LOI, and can possibly help you with a lot of the technical aspects of the game, such as finding the LOI character models, rendering, coding etc.

I've hit him up, don't think he'll just leave his game for mine but yeah hopefully I can pester him without annoying him too much.

 

[Fyridian]

Wow, really sad to hear about this one. Sihil Just going off the discord convo the whole thing seems kinda shady to me, if he's not going to work on it anymore, then why not let someone else finish it? It's not like you're just some random dude, you've been heavily involved in the project for a long time already.

Anyway, I'm happy to see the game might continue eventually. This is definitely one of the more underrated games here in terms of story and characters. Starting with a small project for experience seems like a pretty good idea from what everyone is saying. If you can find the assets from the original game that would be awesome too (admittedly the renders are what originally drew me to this game)

Lot of respect for taking on the responsibility and learning how to render and code. Best of luck in the future, however this project turns out.

 

[Grunky's Grandpa Cheese]

I've hit him up, don't think he'll just leave his game for mine but yeah hopefully I can pester him without annoying him too much.

Anyways, while it sucks that the project is going through a rough period right now, I'm glad there's a chance it'll keep progressing. It's way too often that games in the Mind control genre get canned due to burnout or lack of will. This one at least has a modicum of hope, due to a very passionate and well-meaning dev.

 

[RedPillBlues]

Yeah I am thinking the same. I just have to get good at daz first. The creators tell me it can take anywhere from one to three to five months to get good at that. So let's see how that works out.

I agree, I think the worst thing you could so is immediately start a new version of this as your daz skill would improve quickly, then you'd just have to remake the beginning, and that never a good look. Even if you dont start a game in the meantime give yourself awhile to get used to daz before you start.

 

[FFTW]

as someone who quite enjoyed the game (gave it 4 stars in my review here), I find what happened to be quite unfortunate. I also think that calling that POS an a**hole is a huge understatement. You were his partner, not someone he hired for money. He had absolutely no right to behave the way he did. By contrast, the way you are behaving as a response is incredible. Hats off to you. You are both way more tolerant and way more patient than me. And the fact that you intend to continue despite all this, even alone if need be, and not receive a cent (and the game was underperforming to begin with) as compensation too, is to be commended. I salute you, and hopefully things go your way from now on brother .

 

[Sihil]

I haven't played being a dik but I've heard there's a character in it that is the same model as Olivia, can anyone confirm this?
So far I've got Sara and Carl down.

 

[AK Khan]

Huh, abandoned........?

 

[Satyr90]

I haven't played being a dik but I've heard there's a character in it that is the same model as Olivia, can anyone confirm this?
So far I've got Sara and Carl down.

You mean her? In the game her name is Maya.

 

[Satyr90]

I haven't played being a dik but I've heard there's a character in it that is the same model as Olivia, can anyone confirm this?
So far I've got Sara and Carl down.

There's a couple that may look similar. Maya and Josy are the two closest, however I'm not sure if either are the same model as Olivia. I could be wrong, I played the game a while ago. If there is another model that looks like Olivia I don't remember her. Josy photo below.

 

[Sihil]

There's a couple that may look similar. Maya and Josy are the two closest, however I'm not sure if either are the same model as Olivia. I could be wrong, I played the game a while ago. If there is another model that looks like Olivia I don't remember her. Josy photo below.

View attachment 1104801

You're right, neither look exactly like Olivia, I'll have to take a look around

 

[Rinbael]

I haven't played being a dik but I've heard there's a character in it that is the same model as Olivia, can anyone confirm this?
So far I've got Sara and Carl down.

I checked out the Being a DIK fanart thread that has a list of assets used for the characters and Zoe (The MC's ex girlfriend) uses this asset which I think might be what is used for Olivia

You must be registered to see the links

I could be wrong though since I haven't played this game since the non-NTR update and only went with the screenshots in the OP.

 

[eddie987]

Okay, I've slept a little since last night and first things first, I feel like I should clear up a few things.
1. While Sznuk provided many reasons, upon pressing, the main reason of him leaving is that he simply cannot work on the game any longer.
2. He locked me out of Patreon the moment he told me that he was leaving yesterday, which gave me no way of clearing the air with the long-term patrons. Few of whom had given more than a hundred dollars to this game.
3. He believes since renders are all his and the concept, however rudimentary, was created by his friend, I have no "legal right" to the game. Keep in mind that this is despite me writing almost all of the Patreon posts, creating opportunities for cross-promo and, well, writing almost the entirety of the fucking game.
4. Despite me giving multiple ways to continue the game, he has made it clear that he simply doesn't want to see the game continued in any way shape or from. However, he is okay with me starting from scratch with different but similar characters.

Now in light of all this, there are three announcements I want to make.
1. I've decided that will continue creating the game on my own. That doesn't mean I want to see the abandoned tag removed just yet because as Sznuk is adamant about not giving his permission to continue creating the game, Rich is reluctant to join the team. That means I have to not only do the writing but also the coding and creating the renders. So simply put, I don't know the sheer amount of work that will actually be required in doing all of this. Especially since my experience with Daz is not only extremely amateurish but also the fact that I only have a 2060 mobile so it'll take me almost twice as long to create the same render.
2. I won't be continuing the NTR path of the game simply because I can't do it and not take like 2 more years to finish the game. The reason I've fought adamantly to continue NTR in the game was that I didn't want to disappoint the most loyal patrons but the most loyal patrons have already been disappointed the most. I might give it a semblance of an end AFTER I am done with the base game but it's not a certainty. From now on each update will probably take some four months. Especially since my understanding of Daz is extremely basic. I started learning about the software a few days earlier because I was going to make a small game named "School Dreams 4: An ode to Goblinboy" as a side project that I'd have released here for free but that idea is now on hold indefinitely. I've linked my first render to show you guys the level of my skill currently so you can expect how bad the renders will end up looking. Note that it utilizes very default models because I genuinely don't know what I am doing.
3. The game will be released here for free. With what has just happened I know I can't seriously expect for anyone to actually pay for the game. Money was never the first reason why I was creating the game. Of course, it was not a non-issue but just not the primary one. So I'll be creating this game for free from now on. I am guessing the biggest reason Sznuk didn't want to see the game continued was that he didn't want someone else to reap the benefits of his own hard work. This way that doesn't happen but the game doesn't get axed either.
So yeah tl; dr: The game's renders from now on will be shit, there will be no NTR but the game will trudge on at a very slow pace.
And it will be free as it has always been here, now just officially.
As much as I hate it, the game will continue WITHOUT Sznuk's approval.

Well, I hope that's the last shitty situation you'll have to face while working on this game, because I honestly believe that the huge improvement in it's writing was the main reason it even got that far into developement. The initial release was just another game with above average renders and writing that was... let's just call it "immature", so that I don't offent anyone.

I think it would be best if you could find someone to help you out with the renders, so that you don't burn yourself out (there are a lot of people who are quite competent with DAZ, but can't write shit...), but I know that if you don't want to set up a Patreon, SubscribeStar or whatever, that would be difficult, so I'll just wish you luck in this new learning experience with DAZ!

In the end of the day, this might be a blesssing in disguise. Your former partner doesn't seem to be the most "cooperative" person, so now you'll at least have the freedom to do what you think best for the game.

 

[UncleFredo]

So I'm not a lawyer but I have had to repeatedly deal with IP issues throughout my career and (sadly) the fees I've paid my lawyer have made his firm the number one IP experts in my state. He always thanks me for paying him to open an entirely unexpected revenue source... LOL

If you didn't sign any letter of agreement or contract about ownership of your work, you own it. Even if you did if no method of compensation was involved he'd be hard pressed to find a judge who'd restrict your use of your work. From what I've read here it seems that he owns the "imagery" and you own the story.

I unsolicited advice is this.
Take the advice of others about creating a less complex game as a learning experience. Use the knowledge you'll gain to assess the work require to complete LOI. Then if you're determined to complete the game, create your own imagery (which if you create it without using his actual images as your starting point can pretty much duplicate the look) and finish the story. Were I in your shoes I wouldn't worry about a long gap before I picked up this game. Far more important to become comfortable with all the non-literary skills that will be required. Only when you've learned the scope of the task before you can you determine how to proceed. Don't be surprised if you determine you need to pull in other talents.

This is a great game. I wish you every success.

Oh and save all communications like the exchange you shared. Lawyers will find them fascinating and are unlikely to ever let them come before a judge. LOL

 

[J0K3RXXX]

Okay, I've slept a little since last night and first things first, I feel like I should clear up a few things.
1. While Sznuk provided many reasons, upon pressing, the main reason of him leaving is that he simply cannot work on the game any longer.
2. He locked me out of Patreon the moment he told me that he was leaving yesterday, which gave me no way of clearing the air with the long-term patrons. Few of whom had given more than a hundred dollars to this game.
3. He believes since renders are all his and the concept, however rudimentary, was created by his friend, I have no "legal right" to the game. Keep in mind that this is despite me writing almost all of the Patreon posts, creating opportunities for cross-promo and, well, writing almost the entirety of the fucking game.
4. Despite me giving multiple ways to continue the game, he has made it clear that he simply doesn't want to see the game continued in any way shape or from. However, he is okay with me starting from scratch with different but similar characters.

Now in light of all this, there are three announcements I want to make.
1. I've decided that will continue creating the game on my own. That doesn't mean I want to see the abandoned tag removed just yet because as Sznuk is adamant about not giving his permission to continue creating the game, Rich is reluctant to join the team. That means I have to not only do the writing but also the coding and creating the renders. So simply put, I don't know the sheer amount of work that will actually be required in doing all of this. Especially since my experience with Daz is not only extremely amateurish but also the fact that I only have a 2060 mobile so it'll take me almost twice as long to create the same render.
2. I won't be continuing the NTR path of the game simply because I can't do it and not take like 2 more years to finish the game. The reason I've fought adamantly to continue NTR in the game was that I didn't want to disappoint the most loyal patrons but the most loyal patrons have already been disappointed the most. I might give it a semblance of an end AFTER I am done with the base game but it's not a certainty. From now on each update will probably take some four months. Especially since my understanding of Daz is extremely basic. I started learning about the software a few days earlier because I was going to make a small game named "School Dreams 4: An ode to Goblinboy" as a side project that I'd have released here for free but that idea is now on hold indefinitely. I've linked my first render to show you guys the level of my skill currently so you can expect how bad the renders will end up looking. Note that it utilizes very default models because I genuinely don't know what I am doing.
3. The game will be released here for free. With what has just happened I know I can't seriously expect for anyone to actually pay for the game. Money was never the first reason why I was creating the game. Of course, it was not a non-issue but just not the primary one. So I'll be creating this game for free from now on. I am guessing the biggest reason Sznuk didn't want to see the game continued was that he didn't want someone else to reap the benefits of his own hard work. This way that doesn't happen but the game doesn't get axed either.
So yeah tl; dr: The game's renders from now on will be shit, there will be no NTR but the game will trudge on at a very slow pace.
And it will be free as it has always been here, now just officially.
As much as I hate it, the game will continue WITHOUT Sznuk's approval.

It's a real shame. This game was having such great potential. I wished you good luck in your new projects.

PS: If you finally decide to reserve your new version of LOI for when you are more experienced to the software, and for this you need to create a short game to improve your experience in those software, but you don't have an idea for the plot of that hypothetical short game of yours, I offer you any of the ideas I exposed in a thread whose link is in my signature, if you're interested. I personally didn't think of them for short games, but any of those ideas could be adapted for a short game.