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Jerghaal

Member
Sep 8, 2018
127
110
Is there a way to revert Diane to a previous point? I want a different route but, there's no area where I can approve of her change in personality.

Nvm, found it, it's done only on the weekend.
 
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derede

Member
Jan 10, 2018
165
1,368
After this release I'll probably do a poll among patreon and subscribestar, to see where The official AT progression of Gina is going. (or not going, people may vote for Lisa instead :eek: )
Can I ask how your poll system works? Are you asking some suggestions from your subs/patrons then pick ones you like most and do a poll with them or "here things I want to make, please vote for one you like" type thing?
I am partially asking this for developer/creator standpoint. I want to make some comics in the near future and I am curious to learn how things work.
Sorry to derail topic :whistle:
 

memelman

Newbie
Nov 18, 2017
96
169
I really like this game in that it is a sandbox game that truly plays as one. A lot of sandbox games on this site very much play as visual novels with a lot of randomly checking places to try to trigger the next scene.

But I have some feedback that I think could improve the game.

For me, there were two major negatives.


1.) The inventory management is pretty bad.

I spent a lot of gameplay time getting rid of conversation topics I did not need or want, and it wasn't in any way fun or enjoyable. I think the whole way that it is managed could use some reworking, however I also have some suggestions for smaller changes that should help a bit and hopefully might not be too hard to implement.

a.) Allow for a whole stack to be trashed or burned for exp

b.) Allow a topic to be set as a banned topic that will not be added to your conversation inventory any more until the ban is undone.

One or both of those changes would reduce how much time is spent just going into your conversation inventory to trash unwanted topics.



2.) The one everyone brings up. The excessive grind.

Figuring out how to use the various options get the right conversation topics or events to increase exp for the interest you need to 100% is interesting and fun. Doing it 30-50 times after you have figured it out is not.

It also has a strange curve. Towards the later part of the game it is not nearly as bad as you are getting 8-10 exp per interaction, have a lot more tools for getting conversation topics, and you have probably already raised many interests partly or all the way to 100% already from previous interactions.

So you may only need to grind 1 or 2 interests to get to the next archetype, and you can probably do each one with 10-15 interactions each. Which is still a little grindy for my tastes, but not excessively so.

Contrast that to when you are first starting out where each interaction may be earning as little as 2 exp a go, you will likely need to grind out 2 or more conversation topics from other characters or events to even be able to have a conversation to raise it, and you have to dedicate more time to taking care of your meters so you don't run out.

As a result it takes significantly more time to get 100% in the interests needed to advance archetypes in the early game since they always require 100 exp to 100%. And the early game archetypes have nowhere near as much erotic content.

So you get a curve where you spend much of (if not most) of the game grinding through the first few archetypes with little erotic content, but then move through the later more rewarding archetypes much more rapidly.

It is a situation I don't find ideal. That curve should be reversed. You should be able to get through the first few less rewarding (the reward being erotic content in this case) archetypes easier and as you acquire more tools for acquiring the topics you need, it should become more challenging to get to the later archetypes.

I don't really have any specific suggestions for improving this, but I do think it is a major point of detraction for this game. I will certainly use a mod/cheat that increases the rate of exp gain when I replay it for future updates.

The grind for your personal skills is also excessive, but it does have the correct curve. It is easier for the first level, and gets progressively harder, but more rewarding, for levels 2 and 3. Just increasing the rate of exp gain in general is the only improvement that is really needed there, IMO.




One other random thing I think would improve the game. Raising interests and skills, especially ones that are more sexual in nature or important, should be less based on spamming specific easy to perform actions and easy to acquire conversation topics.

Take incest for example. When I played through I raised my own skill level by using the watch incest porn action over and over and over and over again, and then raised the female character's interests in it by using the permanent incest topic from the skill to talk to them about it over and over and over.

I feel it would have been more interesting if I raised my skill in it more from the flirty/lewd events with family members, and also if that was the primary way I raised their interest in the topic. For that reason, I don't think the incest skill should provide the permanent incest conversation topic, and I don't think it should be as easy/guaranteed to generate an incest conversation topic from simple easy to access actions like watching porn. You still may be able to sometimes, but it shouldn't be guaranteed.

I also think the events and conversation topics that generate exp for it should reduce how much exp they provide for repeating them. The first few times you get an event or use a conversation topic you get the full exp for it (for yourself and the other character if relevant) but it should reduce how much exp is gained from it, or maybe even stop providing it at all, as you repeat it.

That way you would be encouraged to try to seek out and find the different events and or conversation topics that can provide exp for it, rather than spamming a simple action over and over.

Something similar could be done for other very important topics and skills. Really, any time players are just doing the same simple thing over and over and over is something that should be looked at for ways to diversify how players will accomplish that.


TL;DR: I think overall reducing the grind and inventory management time, while also forcing players to find different ways to raise exp for their skills and other character's interests would make the game more fun and engaging.
 
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Baal7734

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Sep 21, 2016
1,287
4,082
Can I ask how your poll system works? Are you asking some suggestions from your subs/patrons then pick ones you like most and do a poll with them or "here things I want to make, please vote for one you like" type thing?
I am partially asking this for developer/creator standpoint. I want to make some comics in the near future and I am curious to learn how things work.
Sorry to derail topic :whistle:
I tend to give the most obvious branch points as options. For example when Charlie reached the end of her Vanilla path, I asked my general supporters if they would like to see

A: Cougar Girlfriend Charlie (a monogamous path)
B: Neighborhood Cougar Charlie (a slut path)
C: Jesse (Charlies daughter be developed) <--this one won

For Gina, the poll will be something like:

A: Sister Girlfriend Gina (a monogamous path)
B: College Girl Gina (a monogamous path)
C: Stripper Gina (a slut path)
D: Camgirl Gina (a slut path)
E: Lisa (Gina's co-worker developed)

While there are plenty of other options I could go with (Submissive Gina, Dominatrix Gina, ect...) these options all branch directly off the last 3 major keystone AT's so are the easiest to impliment on my end.
 

Baal7734

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Sep 21, 2016
1,287
4,082
1.) The inventory management is pretty bad.

I spent a lot of gameplay time getting rid of conversation topics I did not need or want, and it wasn't in any way fun or enjoyable. I think the whole way that it is managed could use some reworking, however I also have some suggestions for smaller changes that should help a bit and hopefully might not be too hard to implement.

a.) Allow for a whole stack to be trashed or burned for exp

b.) Allow a topic to be set as a banne topic that will not be added to your conversation inventory any more until the ban is undone.

One or both of those changes would reduce how much time is spent just going into your conversation inventory to trash unwanted topics.
A isn't a bad idea. B would however would cause too many issues. I may add the ability to burn a whole stack. That's probably doable.

2.) The one everyone brings up. The excessive grind.

Figuring out how to use the various options get the right conversation topics or events to increase exp for the interest you need to 100% is interesting and fun. Doing it 30-50 times after you have figured it out is not.

It also has a strange curve. Towards the later end of the game it is not nearly as bad as you are probably getting 8-10 exp per interaction, have a lot more tools for getting conversation topics, and you have probably already raised many interests partly or all the way to 100% already from previous interactions.

So you may only need to grind 1 or 2 interests to get to the next archetype, and you can probably do each one with 10-15 interactions each. Which is still a little grindy for my tastes, but not excessively so.

Contrast that to when you are first starting out where each interaction may be earning as little as 2 exp a go, you will likely need to grind out 2 or more conversation topics from other characters or events to even be able to have a conversation to raise it, and you have to dedicate more time to taking care of your meters so you don't run out.

As a result it takes significantly more time to get 100% in the interests needed to advance archetypes in the early game since they always require 100 exp to 100%. And the early game archetypes have nowhere near as much erotic content.

So you get a curve where you spend much of (if not most) of the game grinding through the first few archetypes with little erotic content, but then move through the later more rewarding archetypes much more rapidly.

It is a situation I don't find ideal. That curve should be reversed. You should be able to get through the first few less rewarding (the reward being erotic content in this case) archetypes easier and as you acquire more tools for acquiring the topics you need, it should become more challenging to get to the later archetypes.

I don't really have any specific suggestions for improving this, but I do think it is a major point of detraction for this game. I will certainly use a mod/cheat that increases the rate of exp gain when I replay it for future updates.

The grind for your personal skills is also excessive, but it does have the correct curve. It is easier for the first level, and gets progressively harder, but more rewarding, for levels 2 and 3. Just increasing the rate of exp gain in general is the only improvement that is really needed there, IMO.
Please keep in mind that I'm kinda building the game backwards. Family members are intended to be hard mode characters since they are...you know...not into your dick naturally. But they are also the most commonly encountered characters since you live with them. Non family characters will tend to be a bit more like Charlie (maybe not as easy, but significantly easier than Gina) And from those characters you'll be able to get a lot of xp, and topics that will help you get to the point where transforming the family is much easier. The game just isn't there yet. I'm developing family first namely because they are the most commonly encountered characters, also because they require so many AT's to enable sexual content, I felt starting on them first would be preferred. The alternative, would have probably meant I'd just now be adding in Family members and starting from scratch with them (development wise).
 

Dragon59

Conversation Conqueror
Apr 24, 2020
6,706
10,973
Please keep in mind that I'm kinda building the game backwards. Family members are intended to be hard mode characters since they are...you know...not into your dick naturally. But they are also the most commonly encountered characters since you live with them. Non family characters will tend to be a bit more like Charlie (maybe not as easy, but significantly easier than Gina) And from those characters you'll be able to get a lot of xp, and topics that will help you get to the point where transforming the family is much easier. The game just isn't there yet. I'm developing family first namely because they are the most commonly encountered characters, also because they require so many AT's to enable sexual content, I felt starting on them first would be preferred. The alternative, would have probably meant I'd just now be adding in Family members and starting from scratch with them (development wise).
I can see how that can be a challenge. I'm reminded of Summertime Saga. DC started with family members, but the end goal is actually finding a date for the prom sorority ball. Many players want to focus on the family household members over anyone else in town because there already was so much content in place.
 

khumak

Engaged Member
Oct 2, 2017
3,844
3,892
I tend to give the most obvious branch points as options. For example when Charlie reached the end of her Vanilla path, I asked my general supporters if they would like to see

A: Cougar Girlfriend Charlie (a monogamous path)
B: Neighborhood Cougar Charlie (a slut path)
C: Jesse (Charlies daughter be developed) <--this one won
Fingers crossed for an eventual Jesse/Charlie/Nathan threesome :)
 

Urruah

Member
Jun 20, 2017
498
324
A isn't a bad idea. B would however would cause too many issues. I may add the ability to burn a whole stack. That's probably doable.



Please keep in mind that I'm kinda building the game backwards. Family members are intended to be hard mode characters since they are...you know...not into your dick naturally. But they are also the most commonly encountered characters since you live with them. Non family characters will tend to be a bit more like Charlie (maybe not as easy, but significantly easier than Gina) And from those characters you'll be able to get a lot of xp, and topics that will help you get to the point where transforming the family is much easier. The game just isn't there yet. I'm developing family first namely because they are the most commonly encountered characters, also because they require so many AT's to enable sexual content, I felt starting on them first would be preferred. The alternative, would have probably meant I'd just now be adding in Family members and starting from scratch with them (development wise).
Is there any chance of adding a more widely available skip time function and maybe a button to refresh your topics? For the first thing, there can be times when you don't have anything available to work on for several full days, such as trying to advance Becky on Fridays. The fastest way to advance time, sleeping, still takes several minutes to go from meeting to meeting in a situation like that due to having to do it over 20 times to get back to the same day.

As for refreshing topics, I know you can do so by visiting the MC's room, but if you're at the bar you have to travel across like four or five screens to do it and then another three back.

I don't mind the game's grind that much, but I don't feel like these are really necessary for pacing or anything.

Also, I'm glad to hear about the stack burning for topics. Video games and live streaming in particular really load you up on topics that aren't really useful anywhere in the game right now and social media topics lose a lot of value past like the first or second AT shift.
 

Strec

Active Member
Feb 20, 2018
607
391
The game is very good and promising, in my mind far better than Superpowered, but share the same problem of non-natural and non-understandable limitations in actions and moves, breaking a lot the immersion.

For example I can't understand why you can't go to the park on some hours and why you can't speak with NPCs in some locations (father in garage, ....).

For now I'm impatient to have PC stats complete and more NPC profiles to see the future of the game and its replayability.

I speak only of gameplay, perfect women with big tits are not my cup of tea but as the models seems limited and mainly the same is all games your's are not the worst :)
 
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Urruah

Member
Jun 20, 2017
498
324
I assume he means that you can't do stuff like meditate or take walks at all hours. To which the obvious response is probably "Because that's a really weird thing to do."
 

Squark ⚧❤️

Conversation Conqueror
Jun 16, 2017
7,193
7,977
I assume he means that you can't do stuff like meditate or take walks at all hours. To which the obvious response is probably "Because that's a really weird thing to do."
Meditating at night isn't a weird thing to do.
Going for a walk in the dead of night, however can look a bit odd.
 
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Urruah

Member
Jun 20, 2017
498
324
If I saw someone sitting in the park in a meditative pose at two in the morning I would probably find it even weirder than seeing them walking through the park. And if I was doing it, I would be even more uneasy. Being outside alone in the dark in isolated places makes people uncomfortable.

A better question would be more like 'why can't you meditate at home.' To which the answer is probably less directly sensible and more 'Because that's how the dev wants it to work.' Though on that note, maybe it might make sense if you could buy something online to let you do it in your room?
 
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Squark ⚧❤️

Conversation Conqueror
Jun 16, 2017
7,193
7,977
If I saw someone sitting in the park in a meditative pose at two in the morning I would probably find it even weirder than seeing them walking through the park. And if I was doing it, I would be even more uneasy. Being outside alone in the dark in isolated places makes people uncomfortable.

A better question would be more like 'why can't you meditate at home.' To which the answer is probably less directly sensible and more 'Because that's how the dev wants it to work.' Though on that note, maybe it might make sense if you could buy something online to let you do it in your room?
When I said it's not weird, I meant in the comfort of your own home.
 

Strec

Active Member
Feb 20, 2018
607
391
You can only talk to people when they want to talk. Rumor has it, forcing people to talk is against the geneva convention :eek:
Also, you go to the park whenever.
I prefer such a second degree answer than some focusing on details and I've no doubt you understood my post :)

For others I would say that as an evil oriented player I prefer to walk in park at night and to meditate when I'm drunk, and so it's often at night :coffee:
 
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