VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[jackys0112]

Hi!
This is a sentence far too few players keep in mind. I am a fan of Mina (even if among the "mains" Hana and Feli rank higher for me), but that is always in the back of my head and being a bro, thus I tried to help Mina and Ian to sort out their problems, being a friend to both.
Considering this is a game about corruption, early Mina is a honeytrap in my opinion. It is one thing to come together AFTER Mina and Killian break up, but to help her cheating and sabotage the relationship of your one true friend (no matter how problematic this was due to Ian´s actions) will have consequences down the road.
With Mina you have a first major, if under the surface, test of your moral compass. As said, it is one thing to pursue Mina after she breaks up with Ian, but before they break up I doubt the Karma you get for this will be good.

Sorry if this come off as strong, but i also want to discuss this here to defend Mina actions.

kinda getting the vibe that everyone think cheating as like

Considering this is a game about corruption, early Mina is a honeytrap in my opinion. It is one thing to come together AFTER Mina and Killian break up, but to help her cheating and sabotage the relationship of your one true friend (no matter how problematic this was due to Ian´s actions) will have consequences down the road.

.

As a guy with open view, i think the idea itself is just as fucked up as any characters in this game, why she get karma? there will be consequences for her to try to be happy, because the target is her boyfriend's friend?? i've been cheated twice my life, first love and second love, so i can say Mina actions are way too meek, she's pretty much slap on the wrist of someone who stabs her back multiple times.



There are some important point, which i see while going through the game
1) Mina feel like she cannot trust ian, but he's her first, after an all girl school.

2) and she have never dated any other man, while ian fuck many other girls, which she knew, so it's not monogamy relationship in the first place.

3) Most IMPORTANT, Mina setting is that she's NOT the monogamy type either, she is a wild card and wouldn't mind an orgy itself if was comfortable enough, the only reason why she never done it is cuz she's doesn't feel safe enough with Ian.

4) to MC, friends are all important the same, old or new, proof is how he doesn't really remember bro's memories with Ian, mostly just Ian's affection toward MC from past event, so Mina is equally important to him, they're the only friend he have, seeing her unhappy with everything Ian did was hurting him too.

5) Ian is excited to watch Mina and MC kiss each other during the game, fine with MC being naked in front of her.

6) they're not married twisted coupled, but not married, also only 10 months long

7) Attention, most important part here, MC is strong enough to resist the temptation at the club, and she have never really actively seduce him, kiss him during the game because he make her feel safe (which ian never do), ian okays with it and it's part of her personality, same with peeking, all the way to ian cheating part discovered. she didn't make an active approached, and MC make his choice "fuck it, i'm going along" (which is you actually)

After all things considered, i feel players should feel the action more deeply and not judge because you're used to having one guy who can have many girls but once a girl is with another guy it's unacceptable, close friend or not, why is that? Why blame Mina for consequences, if there is even any at all?

I mean, for me really, with these guys personality, what do you expect the result to be after MC try to mend Mina and Ian relationship? it just gonna be a threesome with both of them banging her down along the line in the end, or foursome, if others are involved,

none of these guys NEED a normal relationship. None

Thanks for reading this long ass essay.

 

[Turret]

Sorry if this come off as strong, but i also want to discuss this here to defend Mina actions.

kinda getting the vibe that everyone think cheating as like .

As a guy with open view, i think the idea itself is just as fucked up as any characters in this game, why she get karma? there will be consequences for her to try to be happy, because the target is her boyfriend's friend?? i've been cheated twice my life, first love and second love, so i can say Mina actions are way too meek, she's pretty much slap on the wrist of someone who stabs her back multiple times.



There are some important point, which i see while going through the game
1) Mina feel like she cannot trust ian, but he's her first, after an all girl school.

2) and she have never dated any other man, while ian fuck many other girls, which she knew, so it's not monogamy relationship in the first place.

3) Most IMPORTANT, Mina setting is that she's NOT the monogamy type either, she is a wild card and wouldn't mind an orgy itself if was comfortable enough, the only reason why she never done it is cuz she's doesn't feel safe enough with Ian.

4) to MC, friends are all important the same, old or new, proof is how he doesn't really remember bro's memories with Ian, mostly just Ian's affection toward MC from past event, so Mina is equally important to him, they're the only friend he have, seeing her unhappy with everything Ian did was hurting him too.

5) Ian is excited to watch Mina and MC kiss each other during the game, fine with MC being naked in front of her.

6) they're not married twisted coupled, but not married, also only 10 months long

7) Attention, most important part here, MC is strong enough to resist the temptation at the club, and she have never really actively seduce him, kiss him during the game because he make her feel safe (which ian never do), ian okays with it and it's part of her personality, same with peeking, all the way to ian cheating part discovered. she didn't make an active approached, and MC make his choice "fuck it, i'm going along" (which is you actually)

After all things considered, i feel players should feel the action more deeply and not judge because you're used to having one guy who can have many girls but once a girl is with another guy it's unacceptable, close friend or not, why is that? Why blame Mina for consequences, if there is even any at all?

I mean, for me really, with these guys personality, what do you expect the result to be after MC try to mend Mina and Ian relationship? it just gonna be a threesome with both of them banging her down along the line in the end, or foursome, if others are involved,

none of these guys NEED a normal relationship. None

Thanks for reading this long ass essay.

So much text for a misunderstanding, that is quite funny! If you read my post correctly, you will see that I mentioned bad Karma in relation to the MC mostly, less Mina, even if she gets some too if you and her cheat on Ian. How we players act on this is TD´s first major moral test of the game, just not in the face type.
I once again say that two wrongs do not make a right. Ian certainly needs a wake-up call (which we can at least partly give him) and is the one responsible for what is coming his way, but that still does not make cheating right.
As we could see during the birthday truth or dare, Ian would have been ok with Mina doing it with Edwin, but openly, not like tihs. As said, it is one thing if Edwin and Mina come together after the break up or if Edwin helps Mina cheating. Esp. since we should not forget that there is the posibility that Ian (if he starts manning up and thinks about the future) and Mina might make up later on in the game.
But personally, I can even see an epilogue with Ian teaching History at a school or university and being in a relationship with Viktoria or Mina.

 

[Deleted member 72211]

anyone has savefile for start of chap 4?

 

[Bill Temple]

anyone has savefile for start of chap 4?

Carl0sDanger posted one a couple weeks ago if you need it, but you should read Biscardone's reminder right below the post that I linked. It would take no time at all to play through again with your own choices, rather than someone else's, by right-clicking on the skip button within the quick menu.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

-

Sorry, I may have wanted to argue a bit there.

But mainly I wrote these things because I see a lot of guys turning a blind eye to flaws of beautiful women and possibly setting themselves up for future pain.

Then again it's not really my problem, and I can accept if you see things differently.

I genuinly wish you well.

Cheers

Merely a debate which is what we do on these boards. Mina's at worse a very naive girl who was likely in way over her head with ian which is why she let him got away with so much. Only interaction of hers that I found really problematic was the acting scene. Now MC on the other hand is doing some really lowdown stuff creeping on his buddys girl cuz he knows what hes doing every step of the way but tries to justify it when he should be helping his friend

 

[Bill Temple]

Merely a debate which is what we do on these boards. Mina's at worse a very naive girl who was likely in way over her head with ian which is why she got away with so much. Only interaction of hers that I found really problematic was the acting scene. Now MC on the other hand is doing some really lowdown stuff creeping on his buddys girl cuz he knows what hes doing every step of the way but tries to justify it when he should be helping his friend

Well, we can opt out of Edwin pursuing Mina. It's not really Edwin that's to blame. It all of us, like depraved gods, puppeteering poor Edwin into these immoral, traitorous acts.

 

[Turret]

Well, we can opt out of Edwin pursuing Mina. It's not really Edwin that's to blame. It all of us, like depraved gods, puppeteering poor Edwin into these immoral, traitorous acts.

What is exactly that I did in my "canon" playthrough! I try to be a friend for both. And this is why I said that Mina can be a moral honeytrap. We can pursue her, we can stay friends, we can pursue her after(!) she breaks up with Ian or even ignore her. No matter what we do as players, it says something about us as far as our specific "canon" playthrough on this topic.

 

[Deleted member 72211]

Carl0sDanger posted one a couple weeks ago if you need it, but you should read Biscardone's reminder right below the post that I linked. It would take no time at all to play through again with your own choices, rather than someone else's, by right-clicking on the skip button within the quick menu.

Thank you very much

 

[Deleted member 5259050]

-

Sorry, I may have wanted to argue a bit there.

But mainly I wrote these things because I see a lot of guys turning a blind eye to flaws of beautiful women and possibly setting themselves up for future pain.

Then again it's not really my problem, and I can accept if you see things differently.

I genuinly wish you well.

Cheers

Sorry but I think this is a bad take and its not just 'turning a blind eye to flaws of beautiful women'. I view Mina's actions as a natural consequence about the shit she has had to deal with being with a mentally abusive boyfriend. If sh was in a happy relationship and if Ian was not such a cunt, I genuinely dont think anything would have happened between Mina and the MC during the acting scene.

If you keep abusing people over and over and treat them like dirt, they will try to push back a little. Mina's only fault here is that she was an idiot and a doormat - but given this was her first relationship it is believable. I was certainly an idiot during my first relationship - you dont know what your boundaries are or when to say no. If you hit the jackpot and find a good partner, you grow together however if you end up with someone abusive, it is easy for your partner to take advantage of you.

 

[DWYA8888]

Thread Updated: 2022-10-18

60 days not have update.... What happen? o_0

 

[jackys0112]

So much text for a misunderstanding, that is quite funny! If you read my post correctly, you will see that I mentioned bad Karma in relation to the MC mostly, less Mina, even if she gets some too if you and her cheat on Ian. How we players act on this is TD´s first major moral test of the game, just not in the face type.
I once again say that two wrongs do not make a right. Ian certainly needs a wake-up call (which we can at least partly give him) and is the one responsible for what is coming his way, but that still does not make cheating right.
As we could see during the birthday truth or dare, Ian would have been ok with Mina doing it with Edwin, but openly, not like tihs. As said, it is one thing if Edwin and Mina come together after the break up or if Edwin helps Mina cheating. Esp. since we should not forget that there is the posibility that Ian (if he starts manning up and thinks about the future) and Mina might make up later on in the game.
But personally, I can even see an epilogue with Ian teaching History at a school or university and being in a relationship with Viktoria or Mina.

i wasn't attacking your post, it just have the most info so i quoted it.
Counting Mina action as cheating is only right under heavy moral culture influenced, i'm asian too but live in a western environment all my life so i know where you're coming from, but to most her action are very mild and it should not at all a problem with open minded friends which illustrated in the game.

I am bad, i want her to be happy, she's happy with my friend and he can make her happy the way i can, i can entrust her to him without worrying about her being sad like when she's with me

, this is normal, even romantic dramas illustrate it many times, even when they didn't break up yet, it's already over.

And you ask why the hell Mina didn't breakup first before doing things to our MC, well, why didn't Ian do it? Saying two wrong doesn't make a right is only an alternative way of saying "Ian was wrong, but whos care, She shouldn't do it because i don't accept her doing that just because the others did", like heck no,

I don't stab someone in the back because they haven't hurt me before, so i shouldn't, and that good.
But if someone stab my back multiple times already, i think i should have the options, if i don't stab them back and forgive them and move on and be good and be saint, well that's good. BUT i should have option to choose to do whatever the hell i want, break them, stab them back, date their friends, hurt them, cheat them, or forgive them, that my choice, it's punishment, whether that punishment is on me or the person stabbing me, doesn't matter, no one should be allowed to judge it, Like, why the hell does Mina have to think about how everyone feel, carefully choose what to do, what to say, how to act for that "consequences" that might or might not happening, when she is hurt herself? and she should do this, should do that, it's morally right, blah blah, you should try replay the game and make choices so MC have sex with her, what she said during that times is enough for me to defend her choice, and i am a man, not even woman.

Ian already broken, the only way he can heal and become teacher like you said is by Mina leaving his life, which make him rethink about his life now that he's lost something important by his own hand, then he can reflect, develope to be better

Right or wrong is only based on individual perspective in her case, i'm just a deep thinker

 

[Mad Warrior]

So this is my first playthrough, whould i go for low or high toughness play through and how does it affect the game?

 

[Mograx]

So this is my first playthrough, whould i go for low or high toughness play through and how does it affect the game?

Top right corner of the thread has a search bar. Type "toughness" into it.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

-

I don't know how to say this without sounding haughty, but women just do their lowdown stuff differently. Women (Mina) do it subtly if they want a guy - making beautiful eyes, being a bit more affectionate than to others, show their good traits of personality, showing off their body, dress nicely, try to create possibilties for meeting you, try to get you to know and like their family, get intimate, treat you only with their best behaviour, try to bond through letting you in on private matters - for guys they don't want they make zero effort. And Mina did all of this.

So yes, Ian did wrong first and more often (as far as we know), but then you just stop and end the relationship.

If you don't, and instead go on and treat your partner badly, and you can find all kinds of reasoning, than you have done wrong yourself. At least in my books. And trying to get your partners best friend to fall for you - and then cheat with him, thats some really lowdown stuff there. Not much worse you can do to your partner than cheat and destroy his best friendship. And IMO Mina did more for the escalation with Edwin than him - just with her womanly ways and female charm.

She even wears the f****ing dress you choose!

She couldn't have done worse to Ian if she fucked his dad! Edwin is the most important person in his life.

If you can't see it or don't want to see it, I don't know what to say.

-

So what Mina does and what the MC does if you go after her (agree with you there) - is IMO pretty much the most fucked up shit you can do to a romantic partner/best friend.

So Mina is not real, but our attitudes towards human actions are.

Wall of text

Ian is not the wronged one in this relationship. Hell, Mina wasnt even trying to seduce edwin until after he did her dirty for the last time. Her being a people pleaser which she obviously is does not mean she was trying to fuck Edwin it just means what it means. Shes extremely naive compared to everybody else in this story and did not know how to get out of the relationship. Hell if Edwin didnt come along, shed still be in said shitty relationship silently suffering. As for doing horrible things if her fucking edwin is bad then what is his fucking Veronica?

 

[Nulldev]

-

I don't know how to say this without sounding haughty, but women just do their lowdown stuff differently. Women (Mina) do it subtly if they want a guy - making beautiful eyes, being a bit more affectionate than to others, show their good traits of personality, showing off their body, dress nicely, try to create possibilties for meeting you, try to get you to know and like their family, get intimate, treat you only with their best behaviour, try to bond through letting you in on private matters - for guys they don't want they make zero effort. And Mina did all of this.

So yes, Ian did wrong first and more often (as far as we know), but then you just stop and end the relationship.

If you don't, and instead go on and treat your partner badly, and you can find all kinds of reasoning, than you have done wrong yourself. At least in my books. And trying to get your partners best friend to fall for you - and then cheat with him, thats some really lowdown stuff there. Not much worse you can do to your partner than cheat and destroy his best friendship. And IMO Mina did more for the escalation with Edwin than him - just with her womanly ways and female charm.

She even wears the f****ing dress you choose!

She couldn't have done worse to Ian if she fucked his dad! Edwin is the most important person in his life.

If you can't see it or don't want to see it, I don't know what to say.

-

So what Mina does and what the MC does if you go after her (agree with you there) - is IMO pretty much the most fucked up shit you can do to a romantic partner/best friend.

So Mina is not real, but our attitudes towards human actions are.

Wall of text

My moral explanation:
- Mina is a total babe
- Mina is cute
- Mina is fucking hot




- I don't like Ian. (I get it, they had this friendship, but I'm trying to end it.)

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

I guess we just see it differently, for whatever reasons.

What do you mean with Veronica? Doesn't click right-away...

Mistyped, meant Felicia, my bad.

 

[camube]

Spoiler: "You call this small, you 'out-of-touch' fuck?"

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Started just barely a week ago, and this is one of my most favorite images of the game lmao!

This game definitely needs more exposure, it's honestly a great game. Funny dialogue, good writing, characters with their own thoughts and personalities.... not to mention they are insanely fucking attractive! (My faves are, of course, Mina and Hana)

Can't wait to see more!

how high does your point needs to be to get this line? i dont think i ever have it

 

[Doffy6601]

Ntr?

 

[Bill Temple]

Ntr?

search?

 

[Doffy6601]

search?

No