VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Leinad_Sevla]

We discussed this here: https://f95zone.to/threads/pale-carnations-ch-4-up-6-ea-mutt-jeff.50281/post-18308078
Hope it helps!
Edit:The discussion is mostly about Allison, but for Sophia should be related to accepting her apologies if I had to guess

Hi!
The option to be with Allison or Sophia during the orgy depends on you actions before. Sophia only shows up if she likes you. So during your encounters with her before you need to get brownie points. e.g. chosing Sophia during the visit to the blue room with Kath and Sophia. Not insulting her, accepting her apology, should be self-explaining. If you have enough points with her, Sophia will show up at your chair and start a conversation. When you need to choose an action, follow her.
Btw. never take drugs like the coke during the the orgy, Sophia dislikes drug use with stuff not made by her. (Also dislikes abuses of her own inventions)
Discrepancy already posted help points for Alli

Thank you both. Well, I don´t think I have a good repertoire with Sophia, since she hangs around that old man and I don´t like him. I didn´t accept her apology, so that didn´t help either. I do have a save where I did accept it, so I´ll try that one. I´m really only interested in getting some Sophia action.

 

[Discrepancy]

Thank you both. Well, I don´t think I have a good repertoire with Sophia, since she hangs around that old man and I don´t like him. I didn´t accept her apology, so that didn´t help either. I do have a save where I did accept it, so I´ll try that one. I´m really only interested in getting some Sophia action.

Well you can't blame the girl for not wanting to fuck you if you didn't accept her apology

 

[christochill123]

can someone help me. The cheat mode i put it into the file and nothing happens.. is it still working?

 

[Leinad_Sevla]

Well you can't blame the girl for not wanting to fuck you if you didn't accept her apology

She has a point. She seem to take it gracefully, so I thought maybe there is a chance. Clearly not.
But no problem, I still have the other save.

 

[Kameri]

She has a point. She seem to take it gracefully, so I thought maybe there is a chance. Clearly not.
But no problem, I still have the other save.

iirc choosing sophia instead of kathleen in that week 2 punishment also help build rapport with sophia

 

[Turret]

Thank you both. Well, I don´t think I have a good repertoire with Sophia, since she hangs around that old man and I don´t like him. I didn´t accept her apology, so that didn´t help either. I do have a save where I did accept it, so I´ll try that one. I´m really only interested in getting some Sophia action.

Hi! As I wrote before, Sophia only comes to talk during the orgy if she likes you. For that you have to start from the beginning. You probably also did not choose her during the Kath and Sophia scene in the blue room, since you have no good relations with her.
first off, when you meet Sophia in the club bar, take her hand, when the option pops up. During the Kath and Sophia scene in the blue room choose Sophia. Do not insult her during the "flat invasion", accept her apology, talk with her during the free roam, do not take drugs. That should help you.

 

[ename144]

Hi ename144!
While Wilhelm von Occam´s idea is a nifty tool, your use of it here fall s prey to not available to you important info. Since you have bad relations with Sophia, your Edwin does not gain some insights other Edwins do.
That some black ops sh... like mental imprints was done on Sophia, be it volunteered or ordered to is currently unclear, is very obvious if you chose her path. Also that Sophia is adapting to it, starting to throw her weight around. As I mentioned in former posts, I theorise that Sophia was honed to be Abel´s right hand, sword and successor, added to it secret service level mental work and spec training to be able to function in the club without too much undue attention.
Given that Sophia remembers alot of time with Abel fondly, I think she volunteered to help bring down the Club and esp. Chuck. But she, probably even Abel, underestimated what a mental workover of an already eccentric genius-level mind would bring about. You cannot force a mind continously to do things he never had inclinations of, stuff compatible with the core personality
will merge, incompatible things will be rejected/erased over time. This is what happens here, because with Sophia in a few year becoming Abel´s successor leads to her start stretching her own wings. Currently she and her imprints function like they should, but Sophia is injecting her own spin. She wants to win, but her own designs are beginning to take shape.

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I estimate that the mind work and special traning done with/for/on Sophia has the reason to "round out" some of her skill sets, enable her to do things she does not like/want to do and shield her from suspicion/work undercover in the club. That something was done can be seen here.

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Step by step we get more info about what really goes on with Chuck/Club and Abel/Sophia. It is a shadow war to the end, both sides willing to do what "has to be done". More later.

Hi, Turret.

I'm not trying to argue against your support of Sophia, but I have to note two things here. First, just because my main save has poor rapport with Sophia does not mean I haven't seen her high rapport scenes. I have seen them. I try to see as much of the game as possible if only to give TD and GIL the best review I can (though the game is now so complex that I'm sure I'm missing some minor combination of variables). So I have seen Sophia's other lines and her sex scene, I just don't find them any more appealing than her previous actions - other than feeling sympathy due to her apparently dealing with some sort of serious mental issues.

Which leads to my second note: avoiding an endless layer of explanations based on "unavailable information" is precisely the point of Occam's Razor. Yes, it's possible Sophia is some sort of deep cover sleeper agent whose various personality grafts are starting to conflict, but until the game presents clear evidence that any of those things exist in the game world, I think it is much easier to assume Sophia is deeply addled and leave it at that, at least until we get more information. Your mileage obviously varies, which is fine.

She has a point. She seem to take it gracefully, so I thought maybe there is a chance. Clearly not.
But no problem, I still have the other save.

AFAICT, these are all the Sophia Rapport points currently available in the game:

• +3 if you kissed Sophia while watching the Carnation punishment in Chapter 4 Update 2.
• +1 if you push back against her initial apology
• +1 if you're distracted by her breasts when she visits in the morning
• +1 if you accept her apology before she leaves
• +1 if you say you liked her angry outburst when talking to her during the free roam in the Club
• -2 if you snort coke off Allison's ass
• +1 if you look at her tits rather than taking her hand off your chest
• -2 if you take her hand off her chest rather than look at her tits (to a minimum of 0)

Sophia will have an extended discussion with the MC during the orgy (thus allowing you to choose her sex scene) if you have 3 or more Rapport points. In essence that means you *need* to stare at her tits in the Club, plus pick any two of the other options listed. If you fooled around with Sophia previously you're nearly there, just avoid any negative points. If not, then you need to stare at her tits in the Club, say no to drugs, and pick any of the other positive points listed.

EDIT: Added some missing points.

 

[TD1900]

Hi, Turret.

I'm not trying to argue against your support of Sophia, but I have to note two things here. First, just because my main save has poor rapport with Sophia does not mean I haven't seen her high rapport scenes. I have seen them. I try to see as much of the game as possible if only to give TD and GIL the best review I can (though the game is now so complex that I'm sure I'm missing some minor combination of variables). So I have seen Sophia's other lines and her sex scene, I just don't find them any more appealing than her previous actions - other than feeling sympathy due to her apparently dealing with some sort of serious mental issues.

Which leads to my second note: avoiding an endless layer of explanations based on "unavailable information" is precisely the point of Occam's Razor. Yes, it's possible Sophia is some sort of deep cover sleeper agent whose various personality grafts are starting to conflict, but until the game presents clear evidence that any of those things exist in the game world, I think it is much easier to assume Sophia is deeply addled and leave it at that, at least until we get more information. Your mileage obviously varies, which is fine.


AFAICT, these are all the Sophia Rapport points currently available in the game:

• +1 if you push back against her initial apology
• +1 if you're distracted by her breasts when she visits in the morning
• +1 if you accept her apology before she leaves
• +1 if you say you liked her angry outburst when talking to her during the free roam in the Club
• +1 if you look at her tits rather than taking her hand off your chest
• -2 if you take her hand off her chest rather than look at her tits (to a minimum of 0)

Sophia will have an extended discussion with the MC during the orgy (thus allowing you to choose her sex scene) if you have 3 or more Rapport points. In essence that means you *need* to stare at her tits in the Club, plus pick any two of the other options listed.

There's also a retroactive check where you get +3 Sophia points for the kiss ending during Kat's HJ back in Ch4Up2.

 

[ffive]

Hi! As I wrote before, Sophia only comes to talk during the orgy if she likes you. For that you have to start from the beginning. You probably also did not choose her during the Kath and Sophia scene in the blue room, since you have no good relations with her.

Note that you don't really need to go that far back. You can build enough rapport with Sophia in this update alone, even if you didn't do anything sexual with her (or Kat) during the earlier encounter.

 

[Kameri]

Note that you don't really need to go that far back. You can build enough rapport with Sophia in this update alone, even if you didn't do anything sexual with her (or Kat) during the earlier encounter.

He must be really antagonize sophia for to not get sophia scene with how many chances you can build sophia's relationship points lol

 

[Fapparition]

I want to yap a bit about the ending scene — the one where carnations are presented to Elias — because I think it was one of the most, if not the most, well-done scene in the game. Putting aside the obvious plot gears, I was genuinely stunned (in a good way) by synergy between Chuck and Kath. They’ve always kind of represented different — or at least separate — parts of the club, so seeing them speak with a single voice felt surprisingly unsettling, disturbing even.

Gil has always been great at making scenes feel alive through subtle tweaks — little changes in poses and expressions for each character at every new render. But, correct me if I’m wrong, I don’t remember him using such frequent camera shifts before with all those zoom-ins and zoom-outs, those unusual yet striking angles (something you can see in SG).

The whole scene is clearly divided into two parts — the build-up and the culmination — with the BGM serving as an indicator of the transition. And I can’t praise the choice of music enough: the track for the climax fits perfectly. Once again, Neffex’s instrumental absolutely delivers.

That said, I have mixed feelings about the moment when Edwin finally removes the mask. For me, that’s the single most crucial point — where every tiny detail matters. I expected Felicia’s reaction to go through four stages:

1. Adapting – adjusting to the light and surroundings after being unable to see or hear anything.
2. Recognition – sensing something both familiar and unfamiliar (familiar to her, but alien in terms of the club).
3. Realization – understanding who’s standing before her, as fear begins to take hold.
4. Dread – the apotheosis of fear.

In the animation, the first two stages seem to blend together, the third is delivered perfectly, and the fourth… I’m not sure. I couldn’t quite put my finger on her expression. More importantly, I think the moment might have worked better if it were presented in a more traditional, static way — without animation — so that the first two stages could be conveyed more clearly.

Also, one thing confused me: when Felicia screams “Don’t touch me!”, who is touching her? The camera angle makes it impossible to tell.

 

[Discrepancy]

Also, one thing confused me: when Felicia screams “Don’t touch me!”, who is touching her? The camera angle makes it impossible to tell.

I thought it was Edwin?

 

[Fapparition]

I thought it was Edwin?

Nope, he leaves the scene before that

 

[Turret]

Hi, Turret.

I'm not trying to argue against your support of Sophia, but I have to note two things here. First, just because my main save has poor rapport with Sophia does not mean I haven't seen her high rapport scenes. I have seen them. I try to see as much of the game as possible if only to give TD and GIL the best review I can (though the game is now so complex that I'm sure I'm missing some minor combination of variables). So I have seen Sophia's other lines and her sex scene, I just don't find them any more appealing than her previous actions - other than feeling sympathy due to her apparently dealing with some sort of serious mental issues.

Which leads to my second note: avoiding an endless layer of explanations based on "unavailable information" is precisely the point of Occam's Razor. Yes, it's possible Sophia is some sort of deep cover sleeper agent whose various personality grafts are starting to conflict, but until the game presents clear evidence that any of those things exist in the game world, I think it is much easier to assume Sophia is deeply addled and leave it at that, at least until we get more information. Your mileage obviously varies, which is fine.


AFAICT, these are all the Sophia Rapport points currently available in the game:

• +1 if you push back against her initial apology
• +1 if you're distracted by her breasts when she visits in the morning
• +1 if you accept her apology before she leaves
• +1 if you say you liked her angry outburst when talking to her during the free roam in the Club
• +1 if you look at her tits rather than taking her hand off your chest
• -2 if you take her hand off her chest rather than look at her tits (to a minimum of 0)

Sophia will have an extended discussion with the MC during the orgy (thus allowing you to choose her sex scene) if you have 3 or more Rapport points. In essence that means you *need* to stare at her tits in the Club, plus pick any two of the other options listed.

Hi ename!
I do not know how many, but you also lose Sophia points if you take drugs. TD himself ninjaed me on the blue room points.

On our general Sophia discussion, reasoning variations aside, there is one other reason why I believe Sophia is NOT insane. So far, every just halfway important character in the game has been thoughtfully crafted by TD and GIL. There are more layers to e.g. Kath beyond her rampant sadism and with Chuck and her we already have two major characters with insanity ruling them. I doubt TD tries to add the mad scientist trope to that, esp. since Sophia was shown to be an eccentric genius from the start, already on another development route than insanity.

 

[Ummmh]

Nope, he leaves the scene before that

not in my playthru.

It's timed to be directly after Edwin makes the choice to comfort her or not. I suspect it was envisioned as being specifically linked to his choosing to comfort her (so not happening, otherwise), but was erroneously left as a static step in the convo, devoid of context.

 

[Kameri]

Guys does warning Felicia about her favorite artist in the hana concert and her husband appearance before the stage change anything? i didn't do it

 

[Ummmh]

I think it is much easier to assume Sophia is deeply addled and leave it at that, at least until we get more information.

IMO... Either:
1) she's been hitting her own stash (inadvisable: science requires isolation between observer/observed in experiments; you are supposed to avoid using yourself as a test subject, as it can bias results, ESPECIALLY in cases involving psychotropic drugs);
2) she's just really nuts (unlikely, unless it is a late-onset condition, given she maintained sufficient stability to achieve PHD accreditation);
or...
3) the old man is strategically (and possibly secretly) dosing her, and using her when she is chemically under suggestion (IMO most likely, given her surprise at being told abt her DiD-like behavior).

 

[Turret]

Guys does warning Felicia about her favorite artist in the hana concert and her husband appearance before the stage change anything? i didn't do it

Hi!
Problem here is that to gain knowledge of the painting you loose at least 2 chances to raise Feli´s selfconfidence. If you get out of the exhibition/datenight with Felicia having 6-7 SP, you do not have a chance to learn about the painting. If you investigate enough to learn about the painting to warn Feli at the concert, she will end the evening with around 4 SP.
Unless there is a very specific track how to do the art exhibition, you have to decide either to raise Feli´s selfconfidence or learn and warn her about the painting at the concert.
So far I did not see clear changes at the reveal if I do warn her at the concert and the evening.

 

[Turret]

IMO... Either:
1) she's been hitting her own stash (inadvisable: science requires isolation between observer/observed in experiments; you are supposed to avoid using yourself as a test subject, as it can bias results, ESPECIALLY in cases involving psychotropic drugs);

Hi!
Very unlikely, Sophia is very much an observer when her invention is given out. That is esp. clear during the blue room sit-in with Kath and Sophia. Kath is influenced by the sex drug to an exted (suddenly starting to give Edwin a handjob), Sophia is not. Her participation in the early gangbang was probably "wild Sophia" making an appearance.

2) she's just really nuts (unlikely, unless it is a late-onset condition, given she maintained sufficient stability to achieve PHD accreditation);

Agree that she is not nuts. She was always eccentric, but as you say, she is stable enough to have become a doctor and lead researcher at a major firm.

3) the old man is strategically (and possibly secretly) dosing her, and using her when she is chemically under suggestion (IMO most likely, given her surprise at being told abt her DiD-like behavior).

A possibility, but unlikely in my opinion. Sophia came to apologise on her own, so to keep this under warps (they are in the club which is under observation, if in a private location she would not have reacted like this) she played up a conflict between her core personality and the imprints and crafts she probably has.

 

[Fapparition]

not in my playthru.

It's timed to be directly after Edwin makes the choice to comfort her or not. I suspect it was envisioned as being specifically linked to his choosing to comfort her (so not happening, otherwise), but was erroneously left as a static step in the convo, devoid of context.

I think I got what you mean.
So this render

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should be between these two

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but got misplaced