VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Ummmh]

Probably, yah.

It makes no sense, otherwise.

Big game: hard to 100% track all paths at release.

 

[Ummmh]

A possibility, but unlikely in my opinion. Sophia came to apologise on her own, so to keep this under warps (they are in the club which is under observation, if in a private location she would not have reacted like this) she played up a conflict between her core personality and the imprints and crafts she probably has.

She came to apologize at the (supposedly debugged) apartment, too, and acted all weird, including saying that her actions WERE her boss's actions;
she may have meant they were just in sync, but she came there SUPPOSEDLY privately to apologize, and (YMMV) I got the distinct impression (from combo of factors in both the dialogue and art) that her discussing the old man was affected by conditioning... Something is off.

But we will likely see.

My biggest problem is I REALLY want to use the Allison fvck as "canon" in my playthru, but Soph clearly should take precedent, It WAS a good bang, and her brand of crazy is hot on top of her already being hot, in general.

 

[Turret]

My biggest problem is I REALLY want to use the Allison fvck as "canon" in my playthru, but Soph clearly should take precedent, It WAS a good bang, and her brand of crazy is hot on top of her already being hot, in general.

Hi!
I see your problem and I know TD and GIL made it like this to get us thinking about our decision. Do we abstain totally, going the "Paragon" route, opposing all of this debauchery and abuse? Do we let ourselves be seduced by the opportunity to get together with a hot, but characterly rotten, movie star, throwing in with the Club, locking step with the depravity and abuse done there? Or do we take the third route, the bright light with black schlieren all over it, the grey path? Opposing the club as it is now, but not PC in itself, enjoying life a bit too, but not as abusive as the Club currently does?

 

[FRVN]

Guys does warning Felicia about her favorite artist in the hana concert and her husband appearance before the stage change anything? i didn't do it

In terms of Elias (I didn't warn her about the art), not much, maybe in the next update it will have a bigger impact. If you warn her, there is an added line from Felicia of "so that's what you meant..." or something along those lines, because Edwin does not explicitly tell her what is going on. But other than that, the scene plays out the same.

 

[Ummmh]

Hi!
I see your problem and I know TD and GIL made it like this to get us thinking about our decision. Do we abstain totally, going the "Paragon" route, opposing all of this debauchery and abuse? Do we let ourselves be seduced by the opportunity to get together with a hot, but characterly rotten, movie star, throwing in with the Club, locking step with the depravity and abuse done there? Or do we take the third route, the bright light with black schlieren all over it, the grey path? Opposing the club as it is now, but not PC in itself, enjoying life a bit too, but not as abusive as the Club currently does?

IMO, Alli isn't herself "rotten", just very, very focused on winning in a rotten **situation**, especially because...

Spoiler

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So she's really a victim, despite being able to activate determined bitch mode. She's both literally and figuratively fucked.

 

[Turret]

IMO, Alli isn't herself "rotten", just very, very focused on winning in a rotten **situation**, especially because...

Spoiler

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So she's really a victim, despite being able to activate determined bitch mode. She's both literally and figuratively fucked.

While that is not wrong, it does not tell the whole story. During free roam you can also get info about Allison which shows that she is a consumate liar and no trick too dirty to get what she wants. She simply had the bad luck to get into a competition with people organising it who are worse than she is. As for back on call, yes, but I doubt it is done much with her. I think it be the first time it actually happens and that is because Kath wants to destroy the relations of Elias, Felicia, Edwin and Hana with her help.

 

[sunaboz]

IMO, Alli isn't herself "rotten", just very, very focused on winning in a rotten **situation**, especially because...

Spoiler

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So she's really a victim, despite being able to activate determined bitch mode. She's both literally and figuratively fucked.

I wouldn't say she's a victim, she knew what she was signing for. We can see she's not stupid so she must have known that the reward (which again was only a possibility and not a sure thing) would come with strings attached. For some reason she felt that it was worth the risk, probably because her breakthrough role couldn't come quick enough and also because it was "just sex" to her.

The question we should be asking is whether she's being paid for that night or are they just blackmailing her. I'm guessing they are compensating her for her time generously, otherwise she might be getting ideas that would require some more extreme measures (killing a high profile target like her could bring too much heat, same goes for beating her to a pulp) and judging by the suitcase full of money that Elias will get, money is something they have abundance of.

Turret
I don't think it's the first time.

Kathleen: "Are you sure you don't want me to find you a girl? I could call up Alison if you like. I know she was your favorite last year."
Jim: "She's still on the hook, eh? You're scarier than your husband."

It was a conversation during freeroam just before 2nd exhibition. I'm not sure how their arrangement works, I doubt that Allison would be available whenever Kat would call her but I'm guessing that she might have once per month obligatory carnation job.

The thing with Allison is though, the more she will become famous the less likely they will use her services again. At some point paparazzi will follow her and that might expose the club, it's just not worth the risk. I also wonder how would they even threaten Allison because leaking those tapes could possibly expose the club and make some journalists investigate it further. I'm guessing that for Allison calling their bluff (or "bluff") would pose too much risk and she would rather just have sex with Elias/Jim/whoever else than face potential consequences.

And judging by her jumping Edwin's bones she likes sex and is damn good at it so it's not like she's suffering here.

In the end it's just a porn game so TD might not have thought about details like this so if all else fails we can always blame it on porn logic.

 

[ename144]

Hi ename!
I do not know how many, but you also lose Sophia points if you take drugs. TD himself ninjaed me on the blue room points.

Ah, good point, I forgot about the -2 point hit from snorting coke off Sophia's rival for the evening; I almost never do that. I didn't know points were added to account for the earlier scene with Kat and Sophia, though it makes sense.

On our general Sophia discussion, reasoning variations aside, there is one other reason why I believe Sophia is NOT insane. So far, every just halfway important character in the game has been thoughtfully crafted by TD and GIL. There are more layers to e.g. Kath beyond her rampant sadism and with Chuck and her we already have two major characters with insanity ruling them. I doubt TD tries to add the mad scientist trope to that, esp. since Sophia was shown to be an eccentric genius from the start, already on another development route than insanity.

I see it differently: Sophia's mental issues - whatever their source - form one of those thoughtfully crafted layers you mention. Figuring out what is going on with her and (hopefully) doing something to fix it out is going to be her arc. Some flavor of insanity (be it brainwashing, psychotic breaks or chronic sleep deprivation) wouldn't make her a pointless character. Quite the opposite, actually. But she cannot continue indefinitely in the incoherent state she's currently in, and I certainly won't trust anything she says until I have a better handle on what makes her say such contradictory things.

IMHO, of course.

 

[sunaboz]

It's out for all:

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[Zakharova]

Holy shit! Even by my standards of debauchery, promiscuity, moral depravity, vicious immorality, sadism, religious masochism, and erotic perversity, you threatening the woman who practically raised your kid... and then using her past as a porn actress to blackmail her...? That’s low as fuck! I’m ready to sell MC’s soul to the devil (in this case, Kath) for him to get revenge on that smoking hot redheaded MILF (aka Ian’s mom) with psychological cruelty so intense it’s worthy of a Japanese thriller directed by Sion Sono!

It's wild how Pale Carnations stirs up the darkest, most twisted urges in the player, yet still hits you with a gut-punch of raw, righteous moral fury.

 

[ffive]

It's wild how Pale Carnations stirs up the darkest, most twisted urges in the player, yet still hits you with a gut-punch of raw, righteous moral fury.

Meantime i'm ngl, that subplot kinda ended up feeling like nothingburger. Grace tries to blackmail Victoria, who gets drunk out of her ass and then learns that Edwin actually knew about her past all along and is totally okay with it so she freaked out over nothing, group hug. Makes Grace look more like a clown who ended up doing Vicky and Edwin a favor.

(i'm not saying it's a bad development or anything; just the way it got dealt with so quickly makes it hard for me to feel anything about Grace. It'd be like getting mad at a stooge who tried to assault someone but ended up tripping over their own feet. More of a material for blooper roll than any real outrage)

 

[ename144]

Meantime i'm ngl, that subplot kinda ended up feeling like nothingburger. Grace tries to blackmail Victoria, who gets drunk out of her ass and then learns that Edwin actually knew about her past all along and is totally okay with it so she freaked out over nothing, group hug. Makes Grace look more like a clown who ended up doing Vicky and Edwin a favor.

Grace looks like a harmless chump now, sure, but the subplot isn't over yet. The biggest shoe is still to drop.

 

[ffive]

Grace looks like a harmless chump now, sure, but the subplot isn't over yet. The biggest shoe is still to drop.

Hmm what do you mean by the biggest shoe? Whatever it is that has happened between Victoria and Chuck, or something else..?

 

[FRVN]

Hmm what do you mean by the biggest shoe? Whatever it is that has happened between Victoria and Chuck, or something else..?

Well in addition to the whole Chuck thing, depending on your choices (whether you told Ian to be introspective or not, and whether you told him her secret or lied) you can get revenge on Grace with Ian, or possibly set up a division between Edwin and Ian, or Ian spiraling.

 

[ffive]

Well in addition to the whole Chuck thing, depending on your choices (whether you told Ian to be introspective or not, and whether you told him her secret or lied) you can get revenge on Grace with Ian, or possibly set up a division between Edwin and Ian, or Ian spiraling.

Ahh, okay. Thank you, I wasn't really considering those since like you note, they're largely based on the player's choices so none of that is really a guaranteed outcome.

 

[Bob69]

Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff] - Update only

If you missed it you can find the old Update only patch HERE.

Universal: Ch.4 Up.6 EA -> Ch.4 Up.6 Public [25,7 MB]

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Spoiler: How to install the patch & Info:

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[Zakharova]

Meantime i'm ngl, that subplot kinda ended up feeling like nothingburger. Grace tries to blackmail Victoria, who gets drunk out of her ass and then learns that Edwin actually knew about her past all along and is totally okay with it so she freaked out over nothing, group hug. Makes Grace look more like a clown who ended up doing Vicky and Edwin a favor.

(i'm not saying it's a bad development or anything; just the way it got dealt with so quickly makes it hard for me to feel anything about Grace. It'd be like getting mad for a stooge who tried to assault someone but ended up tripping over their own feet. More of a material for blooper roll than any real outrage)

This anticlimactic turn, so to speak, in Grace's subplot serves, in my view, precisely to portray how her personality suffers from intense emotional detachment. She believes she can "buy" anyone and, consequently, delegate any task, no matter how immoral it may be... this is the great proof of her difficulty in understanding human relationships in general (I’m not sure if due to some issue in the character’s past), how they work, and their usefulness in fostering emotional bonds... curiously, she uses the same behavioral patterns that alienated Ian to try to understand him and transform him into a "better and responsible" person... and I believe this is the main tragedy of her as a mother.

 

[ename144]

Hmm what do you mean by the biggest shoe? Whatever it is that has happened between Victoria and Chuck, or something else..?

Yes, whatever happened with Chuck that required an 'understanding' for them to make awkward Thanksgiving Chit-chat over the years.

That, and having to deal with the fallout from how this effects Killian. We've only seen the first tremors of that particular impact and it's already fairly extreme. I'm sure it can get much worse if the MC lied to an unreflective Killian's face.

 

[Lusurbur]

this update further proofs that lucy should become on of the LI's. Truly one of the best hags in the game and with the whole married woman dynamic added on to her character...could open up more paths down the line where we fuck her in her house near her husband and son

 

[Ummmh]

Yes, whatever happened with Chuck that required an 'understanding' for them to make awkward Thanksgiving Chit-chat over the years.

That, and having to deal with the fallout from how this effects Killian. We've only seen the first tremors of that particular impact and it's already fairly extreme. I'm sure it can get much worse if the MC lied to an unreflective Killian's face.

1) lying to him is probably a factor, tho I had guessed MC was concerned that he would react with shock and so turn to seeing Vicky as just another slut, so change behavior to her like he did with Alice...

2) The fact that ANY woman (especially those Kath feels could cause someone excruciating agony to see humiliated and used) is potentially going to end up club fuckmeat is a major concern, as we see with MC getting twitchy over August meeting Mina (who was actually secretly already a housegirl target, or even future budding Carnation, via her working via Elias's agency, as was hinted back in 4.3 IIRC), so MC clearly HAS to be heavily motivated to keep his mother away from anything that could cause her to slide down that chute to what is more or less humiliation-heavy, degradation-focued sex slavery. He already shields her from even knowing abt the club, and odds are it is mostly not to avoid her disapproval, as fear of her being pulled in has to be prominent in his heart.

3) This last bit especially being enhanced if MC watched the interview tape, as...

Spoiler

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so she technically was already always potentially unknowingly in the slut stable/housegirl pipeline, but Chuck likely nixed it. I think it incredibly unlikely she was ever secretly a Carnation, but for all we know, her situation might have inspired the whole deal in Chuck's twisted brain.