Nahh, MC must demonstrate his results through an assessment later in the story, rather than having prople check in on him with cameras. Exactly what form that assessment will take and the effects it'll have remain to be seen, but that's not happening for quite a while yet. At very least I'm not gonna be having the sponsors demand BJs from the girls or whatever.
It has some definite plus points, but there are some things to improve on.
the good: the girls are hot, and have decent personalities. (And Riley and Sasha are obscenely cute.) The sex scenes are good*.
It's great that it has an in game walkthrough. Same for the "unlock everything" option at the end.
I'm really bad about writing about good things, but there are definitely a lot of positives here. I'd probably give this game about 3 stars, except that that would lower its rating because everything is rating inflated here. This game is early enough that I'll hold off on rating it. It has a lot of potential, so I'll keep an eye on it and hope it gets even better in the future.
On to the bad stuff (which I'm much better at writing about.) I tried to sort by importance.
The sub route is abusive. The "sub" route is way beyond the bounds of acceptable behavior in any normal relationship. GATDAM or not, the things he says to the girls about "having to punish them" or whatever are straight out of the abusers' textbook (I assume, I haven't read it.) At the very least, there needs to be more awareness of this, because this is very far from normal and even farther from acceptable behavior. Nobody should be encouraged to think that this kind of discipline is OK. If girls are screaming in pain, and you're saying "I don't want to hurt you," that's abusive, regardless of the other factors. Nobody is holding a gun to her head and saying "hit her harder or I'll kill her." There's a way to punish without instantly resorting to serious pain. Like with Hikari the first time. I'm not sure if I mind unethical options in these games, (which some of the sub seems to be, and probably all of the slave routes) (I'm unsure if unethical options lead to more or less awful stuff happening to actual people) but they need to be labelled as such, or else risk normalizing horrible behavior. This game is FAR from the worst at this, but it still should do better.
There's too much creepy shit for my taste. I get that the GATDAM system is supposed to be fundamentally creepy, but I feel like it sort of infects other shit maybe? And I have the suspicion that it's really about training sex slaves, in which case it's fundamentally evil, and wrong to take part in. Being told you "have" to put the collars on girls is fucked up. Loophole: since the girls specifically consented to the magistrate dictating things to them in the GATDAM system, the creepy bosses wouldn't actually have the ability to replace the magistrate if he refuses to collar them. That would put the control in the hands of people that the girls didn't consent to controlling them, and thus make the whole thing super illegal.
The party is pretty fucking disturbing. I really don't want Riley to have to spend an hour(?) behind a door getting screamed at by rapists. Especially since it actually is the protagonist's fault since he didn't arrive to scope the place out before she showed up. (And afterwards, I don't think Riley would be ready to be fucked that night.)
Bad things don't happen to bad people. The would-be-rapists get away with that shit? Even if they're protected by a complete lack of law, couldn't the protagonist come back the next day and then use ghosthands to burn their house down while sitting in a nearby cafe in plain view of a dozen witnesses? I know not everyone is huge on revenge, but letting them just get away with it feels super bad.
Similarly, the super-douchebag (I forget his name) is stalking the sister of a super powerful girl whose father runs the place, and he's still around the next day? Akemi could get him expelled in less than 2 minutes. The protagonist doesn't even get to tell him "Stay away from my friends, because you're a misogynistic super-creep, and like 96% of your communication is harassment, and if you harass my friends at all I'll make you regret it 1000 times over." And you don't get to tell the stupid cashier that he was not her boyfriend but a stalker? "Mind your own business" (especially after he's already ignored it) is far less effective than "You just aided a stalker dipship. Go get your manager so I can get you fired."
I really don't like the sleeping blowjob thing with Sasha. Even though they're naked in bed together, it's still sexual assault however you frame it. It would be better if the protagonist hinted at it, and she had something that she could interpret as consent. Maybe when she gets naked and he's surprised she says "Don't think I'm doing naked for sexing with you. Just cold." And the protagonist could say something like "I really wouldn't mind if you were..." That would make the blowjob sort of slightly vaguely justifiable. Or she could just wake him up.
I don't like the sexual directions of the routes; the romance route is still dom/sub in bed, the submission route is way too creepy, and I'm not even going to try the slave route. I would like it if the romance route had more romantic sex, and the submission route had the dom/sub stuff in bed and less intense punishment.
The girls' personalities are a bit underdeveloped outside of their sexual stuff. Here's a question: what do the girls want to do, long term? Hikari might want to cook? Olivia wants to be a super bitch. Maybe Sasha wants to be a ghost hunter? (But she already is, so then why is she at the academy? A ghost researcher?) I get that this game is about sex, but there's plenty of room for more developed characters. (All the games I've given 4 or 5 stars [ok, I've yet to give a game 4 stars] have more developed girls, with hopes and dreams that don't revolve around cock.) But there's still plenty of room to expand them in future updates (even Cassie must have plans, even if they're just to start a sex toy company.)
Too much bodily fluids. I've never seen a girl leaking that much fluid, and I've watched a LOT of porn. And for men, precum is just a little clear fluid that leaks out, not a glob of semen. I don't mind if the narrator is a non binary gender and doesn't have either body part, or is an alien, or a colony of really smart octopuses (that was a joke, not an insult), but it's a little weird to get basic sex anatomy wrong.
There are bugs and crashes. They don't ruin it, but there are far more than normal for these games.
Riley doesn't say it's OK to be with other girls when made your GF. Maybe right when you tell her that she is your girlfriend is not a great time to bring up the fact that the GATDAM system may mean that you can't be exclusive right now, but you should at least wait until after that conversation before fucking anyone else. Generally, in harem options, the protagonist starts casual things with multiple girls at once, and is in too deep to declare any one his girlfriend without telling them that he's not exclusive. I think you have to get locked out of Hikari's romance route if you don't eat her out before getting permission from Riley.
Too many of the protagonist's thoughts are shown. Sometimes I'm like "no shit dude..."
Sasha doesn't warn you about the dangers of ghost hunting, which is kinda' awful. (Protagonist could just think "sure, whatever, hunting imaginary beings is *super* dangerous..."), she also doesn't point out that your ghost hands are proof not everything is what it seems. She doesn't tell you to keep the repulsive torch thing in one hand at all times, which would be really good advice. (Would save your life it not for ghosthands.)
You should be able to tell Sasha about the ghosts' actions to help figure out which type it is. 4b? It acts like a 2, but appears to have employed psychological manipulation. Does that make it a 4? I think it's mischievous, since its manipulations don't directly harm, but it seems to try to kill the protagonist, so does that make it malicious? Sasha should know these things, so why wouldn't you ask?
I'm also worried that the assessment will be like a public group sex thing, where you fuck all the girls in sequence while creepy men watch. I feel like that's where it's heading, so I hope that can be averted.
Anyway, overall it's a solid start with a lot of potential, despite my inability to write about positive things.
the good: the girls are hot, and have decent personalities. (And Riley and Sasha are obscenely cute.) The sex scenes are good*.
It's great that it has an in game walkthrough. Same for the "unlock everything" option at the end.
I'm really bad about writing about good things, but there are definitely a lot of positives here. I'd probably give this game about 3 stars, except that that would lower its rating because everything is rating inflated here. This game is early enough that I'll hold off on rating it. It has a lot of potential, so I'll keep an eye on it and hope it gets even better in the future.
On to the bad stuff (which I'm much better at writing about.) I tried to sort by importance.
The sub route is abusive. The "sub" route is way beyond the bounds of acceptable behavior in any normal relationship. GATDAM or not, the things he says to the girls about "having to punish them" or whatever are straight out of the abusers' textbook (I assume, I haven't read it.) At the very least, there needs to be more awareness of this, because this is very far from normal and even farther from acceptable behavior. Nobody should be encouraged to think that this kind of discipline is OK. If girls are screaming in pain, and you're saying "I don't want to hurt you," that's abusive, regardless of the other factors. Nobody is holding a gun to her head and saying "hit her harder or I'll kill her." There's a way to punish without instantly resorting to serious pain. Like with Hikari the first time. I'm not sure if I mind unethical options in these games, (which some of the sub seems to be, and probably all of the slave routes) (I'm unsure if unethical options lead to more or less awful stuff happening to actual people) but they need to be labelled as such, or else risk normalizing horrible behavior. This game is FAR from the worst at this, but it still should do better.
There's too much creepy shit for my taste. I get that the GATDAM system is supposed to be fundamentally creepy, but I feel like it sort of infects other shit maybe? And I have the suspicion that it's really about training sex slaves, in which case it's fundamentally evil, and wrong to take part in. Being told you "have" to put the collars on girls is fucked up. Loophole: since the girls specifically consented to the magistrate dictating things to them in the GATDAM system, the creepy bosses wouldn't actually have the ability to replace the magistrate if he refuses to collar them. That would put the control in the hands of people that the girls didn't consent to controlling them, and thus make the whole thing super illegal.
The party is pretty fucking disturbing. I really don't want Riley to have to spend an hour(?) behind a door getting screamed at by rapists. Especially since it actually is the protagonist's fault since he didn't arrive to scope the place out before she showed up. (And afterwards, I don't think Riley would be ready to be fucked that night.)
Bad things don't happen to bad people. The would-be-rapists get away with that shit? Even if they're protected by a complete lack of law, couldn't the protagonist come back the next day and then use ghosthands to burn their house down while sitting in a nearby cafe in plain view of a dozen witnesses? I know not everyone is huge on revenge, but letting them just get away with it feels super bad.
Similarly, the super-douchebag (I forget his name) is stalking the sister of a super powerful girl whose father runs the place, and he's still around the next day? Akemi could get him expelled in less than 2 minutes. The protagonist doesn't even get to tell him "Stay away from my friends, because you're a misogynistic super-creep, and like 96% of your communication is harassment, and if you harass my friends at all I'll make you regret it 1000 times over." And you don't get to tell the stupid cashier that he was not her boyfriend but a stalker? "Mind your own business" (especially after he's already ignored it) is far less effective than "You just aided a stalker dipship. Go get your manager so I can get you fired."
I really don't like the sleeping blowjob thing with Sasha. Even though they're naked in bed together, it's still sexual assault however you frame it. It would be better if the protagonist hinted at it, and she had something that she could interpret as consent. Maybe when she gets naked and he's surprised she says "Don't think I'm doing naked for sexing with you. Just cold." And the protagonist could say something like "I really wouldn't mind if you were..." That would make the blowjob sort of slightly vaguely justifiable. Or she could just wake him up.
I don't like the sexual directions of the routes; the romance route is still dom/sub in bed, the submission route is way too creepy, and I'm not even going to try the slave route. I would like it if the romance route had more romantic sex, and the submission route had the dom/sub stuff in bed and less intense punishment.
The girls' personalities are a bit underdeveloped outside of their sexual stuff. Here's a question: what do the girls want to do, long term? Hikari might want to cook? Olivia wants to be a super bitch. Maybe Sasha wants to be a ghost hunter? (But she already is, so then why is she at the academy? A ghost researcher?) I get that this game is about sex, but there's plenty of room for more developed characters. (All the games I've given 4 or 5 stars [ok, I've yet to give a game 4 stars] have more developed girls, with hopes and dreams that don't revolve around cock.) But there's still plenty of room to expand them in future updates (even Cassie must have plans, even if they're just to start a sex toy company.)
Too much bodily fluids. I've never seen a girl leaking that much fluid, and I've watched a LOT of porn. And for men, precum is just a little clear fluid that leaks out, not a glob of semen. I don't mind if the narrator is a non binary gender and doesn't have either body part, or is an alien, or a colony of really smart octopuses (that was a joke, not an insult), but it's a little weird to get basic sex anatomy wrong.
There are bugs and crashes. They don't ruin it, but there are far more than normal for these games.
Riley doesn't say it's OK to be with other girls when made your GF. Maybe right when you tell her that she is your girlfriend is not a great time to bring up the fact that the GATDAM system may mean that you can't be exclusive right now, but you should at least wait until after that conversation before fucking anyone else. Generally, in harem options, the protagonist starts casual things with multiple girls at once, and is in too deep to declare any one his girlfriend without telling them that he's not exclusive. I think you have to get locked out of Hikari's romance route if you don't eat her out before getting permission from Riley.
Too many of the protagonist's thoughts are shown. Sometimes I'm like "no shit dude..."
Sasha doesn't warn you about the dangers of ghost hunting, which is kinda' awful. (Protagonist could just think "sure, whatever, hunting imaginary beings is *super* dangerous..."), she also doesn't point out that your ghost hands are proof not everything is what it seems. She doesn't tell you to keep the repulsive torch thing in one hand at all times, which would be really good advice. (Would save your life it not for ghosthands.)
You should be able to tell Sasha about the ghosts' actions to help figure out which type it is. 4b? It acts like a 2, but appears to have employed psychological manipulation. Does that make it a 4? I think it's mischievous, since its manipulations don't directly harm, but it seems to try to kill the protagonist, so does that make it malicious? Sasha should know these things, so why wouldn't you ask?
I'm also worried that the assessment will be like a public group sex thing, where you fuck all the girls in sequence while creepy men watch. I feel like that's where it's heading, so I hope that can be averted.
Anyway, overall it's a solid start with a lot of potential, despite my inability to write about positive things.
Except more characterization of the girls everything is fine. Hopefully the dev does not listen to you and tone. Mc should training the girls according to the gatdam system. We don't need another vanilla game with a white knight mc
I debated with myself about whether I should respond to this because it's really quite long, but I've decided to do so, mostly because I'm chatty.
Yes, it is. It's not there to present a normal relationship. People like to roleplay the sorts of situations it presents, but they do just that, they roleplay it. The thing I'm presenting here is not roleplay, it's real discipline. If you did the same thing in the real world, it would be abusive for sure. However, that doesn't stop some people being into the idea of it, so this is there to provide that fantasy. Since this is a game, why roleplay a situation when you can actually just create it? Sure, the girls are uncomfortable with it at first, because I felt it would be a bit boring if it turned out all the girls secretly love being disciplined. They're of course a bit more accepting of it than you'd expect in real life, but I do need them to actually accept it for the game to progress. For people who specifically do just want bdsm roleplay stuff, some of the girls who are into that stuff will have options for in game roleplay on their romance routes.
This is again true in real life, but if someone is unable to seperate what is being presented as acceptable in the game, and what is acceptable in real life, I would argue that they shouldn't be playing porn games. These games, especially in the harem genre, especially in the school setting genre, especially when they have the male domination, BDSM and spanking tags are definitely not the place to come for sex education. The content is designed for people who are quite aware that these things are not acceptable in real life.
Due to the setup of the game itself, there is no reality where the kind of content I want to feature on the sub and slave routes could be featured without MC either being abusive by real world standards, or having all the content just being fake. I think the sub route currently being the most popular route for most girls (According to my discord) is evidence enough of the popularity of this type of content, and I'm fully confident that the vast majority of players who opt in to those types of routes are quite aware that the things they can do in game are unacceptable in real life.
Yes, it is. It's a shitty situation, but unfortunately not one that doesn't happen in real life. Perhaps not in quite such dramatic fashion, but shitty situations like this do unfortunately happen to girls. The point of this scene is for MC to show up and save her. Be the hero, the shoulder to cry on, be Riley's safe place. For a lot of men, being the thing that makes a girl feel safe is like the best thing ever. The whole point is to pull Riley out of what would otherwise be probably the worst night of her life. For that, I had to make it a seriously bad situation. Of course nobody wants Riley to have to go through it, but she goes through it anyway because neither she nor MC knew it was gonna happen. Sometimes shitty things happen to good people.
Well no, not yet. The game is still under development. There are many situations that may not be resolved in the same update in which they're introduced. Considering there are less than 24 hours between MC and Riley returning from the party, and the end of the current content, it would be pretty rushed for MC to somehow formulate and execute a revenge plan during that time. Plotlines that are immediately resolved aren't generally received well. Just because he hasn't immediately tried to burn their house down or something similarly short-sighted doesn't mean they've gotten away with it.
Well, assuming Akemi actually knew it was happening, yes, she probably could if she wanted to. Or maybe not. Perhaps there's a reason she hasn't decided to. It's possible that the characters may be developed further as development of the game progresses, and you learn more about their motivations for certain things. There are all sorts of potential reasons that she hasn't decided to get Logan expelled. Me forgetting that Akemi is rich isn't one of them though.
Luckily, it is framed as sexual assault. Unless you tell Sasha you don't mind afterwards, MC directly calls her out for it. That's the entire bases of Sasha's punishment, she's being punished for sexually assaulting you. You can choose to forgive her if you want, but it's not brushed off unless you choose to brush it off. I suppose I could have put an option in the game to have her arrested and removed from the game, but I can't imagine that would be worth the time it would take to develop.
I would agree that there's plenty of room for the characters to be developed, but that's because I'd specifically chosen not to front-load their stories by giving the player all the info they could ever want as soon as you meet them. Part of the process of getting to know the girls is getting to know them. The reason their motivations and aspirations haven't been fully explored yet isn't because they lack them, it's because exploring the characters is the game, and the game is still in development.
This is a mix of personal creative choice, and engine limitation. I do it because I think it's hot. That's it. Realism in porn games (Or porn in general) is definitely not the norm, and it's done that way often because presenting realism just isn't as hot. It's not due to a lack of knowledge about sexual anatomy, it's because realistic sexual stuff just doesn't look good on camera, and isn't really that interesting to most people. It's a matter of opinion of course. I do think though that it's a bit of a leap to assume that me using a white blob of cum in place of the proper colour, consistency and volume of real life precum is due to a misunderstanding of sexual anatomy, rather than just me not actually having a precum model available.
Do you have examples of these? I try to fix them when I can. I haven't had any reports of crashes though, so I'd be interested to see any errors relating to that.
True, she doesn't. She also doesn't know about the other girls. MC is playing with fire. At its core, this is a fuckfest game, so real world logic comes second to enabling the sex stuff. Romance route Riley will of course find out at some point but not yet. I've specifically chosen not to have MC handle the whole harem thing in what an AVN player might call the optimal manner because he's 22 and has no idea how to build a harem. He's gonna make mistakes.
This is usually done to give the player something to read, or at least give some context as to why certain things are happening. Many of them will be obvious, because perhaps you were thinking the same thing, but I found that just removing them made a lot of stuff jarring. Some people dislike reading the thoughts of characters entirely. I'm not one of those people.
You're right, she doesn't. It's possible that getting to know Sasha better in future updates could help to explain why she doesn't necessarily think too hard about her actions, which could lead to things like her leaving out key information, or potentially sexually assaulting MC without really realising quite what she's doing.
As with most of the game, this assessment is likely to take many forms. One of them may be similar to what you describe, but you'd only end up with that one if you were pushing for it. It's quite far in the future though, so I wouldn't really worry about that for now.
Ultimately I think the subject matter of the game and the story itself is probably a bit darker than what you're looking for, but also isn't as dark as you seem to think it will get. I apologise if any of this came across as rude, but it is sometimes frustrating to see critique based on assumptions rather than observations. Not saying all of your points were like that, but a fair few of them were based the fact that you don't know what's going to happen yet, or just kinda misunderstanding the point of the content.
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- Aug 26, 2021
- 933
- 2,298
The guy casually writes a response that would rival some AVN's for the size of their updates...
And yes, I read the entire thing like the degenerate I am.
Took me like an hour lol. There was a lot to read and take in.
- Nov 11, 2021
- 160
- 1,058
I just wanted to add a little something on a few of the subjects. It's directed to anyone with the same complaints
It's 5am for me so cut me some slack if this isn't coherent
It's like in real life when you meet someone, you need to take the time to get to know them. As long as a game is still in development and isn't nearing completion, this shouldn't be a concern. Anyways there's a lot that you can read between the lines during dialogue or by watching their actions that gives you hints while you work your way to knowing them well.
Thoughts are also a Godsend for pacing and for getting the player thinking about the right things at the right time. In my experience, if you have too few character thoughts, even simple ones, players start to complain that the character is dumb or could perceive an MC as a naive dumbass because they don't see the character's thought process.
Not every thought has to be a genius thought, they're mainly there to pace the story, guide the players thoughts about a subject, or to show personality. What you might see as obvious, could have flown right over the heads of many other players.
It's 5am for me so cut me some slack if this isn't coherent
This is one of the more frustrating complaints to deal with. It's absolutely normal to not immediately know these things about a person. Sure you could straight up have them introduce themselves by saying their name, occupation, hopes and dreams, but that would suck the fun out of getting to know them.
It's like in real life when you meet someone, you need to take the time to get to know them. As long as a game is still in development and isn't nearing completion, this shouldn't be a concern. Anyways there's a lot that you can read between the lines during dialogue or by watching their actions that gives you hints while you work your way to knowing them well.
Character thoughts are super important. Literally every game where a character isn't a blank slate will have character thoughts, except they're often just said out loud. There's plenty of reasons for this, play the witcher 3 for example. Some of the lines he says out loud give you more lore insight or characterize Geralt so you can understand him better. Other times, he just drops a grunt or says something as obvious as "winds howling". Those lines serve a purpose as well, the grunts for example show you that he's thinking or gives you a hint that he's feeling some kind of way about something.
Thoughts are also a Godsend for pacing and for getting the player thinking about the right things at the right time. In my experience, if you have too few character thoughts, even simple ones, players start to complain that the character is dumb or could perceive an MC as a naive dumbass because they don't see the character's thought process.
Not every thought has to be a genius thought, they're mainly there to pace the story, guide the players thoughts about a subject, or to show personality. What you might see as obvious, could have flown right over the heads of many other players.
- Jun 26, 2018
- 7,980
- 10,500
I'm in favor of revenge.
I agree, I saw the sex scene with Riley and it certainly didn't excite me. Even telling her that you prefer her to use John (my MC's name and I think the default) as a "nickname" or whatever, the scene feels basically maledom, which isn't something I particularly like.
I had no intention of trying these routes, but I think I have even less desire now.
I agree with this.
I, after playing the Sandbox version to the end, decided to load and choose to skip the hunt so I could decide that I had made the right choice when choosing the type of ghost.
Thanks, Atemsiel, for responding. I know I always come off as super negative, but that's just the fucked up nature of my brain. If I didn't like the game, I wouldn't have responded, and I just would've left a 1 or 2 star review. I'm trying to give constructive criticism, since I got the impression you'd be open to that. (I'm also bad at explaining that this is what I'm doing.) I can see that you put a lot of thought into these things, so that's good. Some people just plunge ahead too quickly, and end up in unresolvable situations, but it's clear that isn't what you're doing; if you're thinking through all these creative decisions, then you're doing it right, even if these decisions are very different than those I would make.
Turns out this is not my fetish.
Anyway, keep up the good work! (seriously, not sarcastically.)
I completely agree. But I also suspect that there are more than a few people like that who play porn games anyway. I feel like the overall way the sub route is framed is at high risk of being interpreted by a fucked up mind in a harmful way. Even just the protagonist periodically thinking "This is so fucked up. I can't believe I have to do this shit," would be good. I tend to think in worst-case scenarios (if that wasn't already evident.) Or just put that "if someone is unable to separate..." line in the introduction. I am confident the vast majority of people won't interpret it harmfully, but I'm worried about the few who will.
Good. It's just, in some of these games, the girls never become more than sex objects. I'm glad that isn't happening here. Their behavior wasn't screaming "UNHEALTHY VIEW OF WOMEN!!!", but it did leave that possibility open.
I know Akemi wasn't there, but if someone were stalking one of my friends I wouldn't just hide and wait for something else to happen before acting. Telling Akemi would be a pretty reasonable way to put a stop to this I think. I'm not a fan of waiting for something worse to happen, given that what he did was completely unacceptable and merited consequences.
Yeah, it just doesn't make her a likeable person, since she almost gets the protagonist killed and then sexually assaults him. Unlike Olivia, I feel like Sasha is supposed to be likeable, so these things seem to conflict with that.
I remember in the gym scene, I got a couple of the white exception screens, which I successfully ignored. I forget when it crashed. Also, in one of the blowjob scenes with Riley, after a significant amount of holding CTRL and then rolling back, there were a number of screens like:
Turns out this is not my fetish.
Anyway, keep up the good work! (seriously, not sarcastically.)
This makes no sense. The sub route is perfectly fine as it is if someone interpretes it in the wrong way then he or she has other problems to deal with first lol. Adding those lines would be somewhat annoying especially in such a game since they would archieve nothing. Also thats not how a "fucked up" mind works and the game nor the lines would not make any different. Such minds wouldn't even care in the first place.
Also i like the game so far small thing i would like to suggest is that the girls in the slave route could be a bit less distanced or becoming so later on. Hard to describe but maybe there should be bit more of some sort of connection or relationship between the girls and the MC but different from sub and romance route if that is not already planned for future.
There are a lot of types of fucked up. Some are psychopaths and sociopaths, and for them those lines would be unlikely to make a difference - they simply don't care. Many 'fucked up' people, however, aren't fucked up because they're innately completely selfish/evil, but rather because the person has a distorted view of reality. (ie nobody has a perfect grasp on reality, but some are a lot worse than others. That doesn't make them hopelessly irredeemable.) Even in fiction, seeing abusive behavior lead to positive outcomes can cause some people to think that the horrible behavior is more acceptable than they had thought before. For some it will be conscious, for others it will be subconscious. I believe that, in this game, a little more overt recognition of the general morality of these actions can absolutely make a difference for some people.
Even if I'm wrong, if they're done with any semblance of skill, these lines won't detract from the game for normal people.
Thats not really how it works, and distortions of reality come in many forms most of them being harmless and can be treated. Also there aren't that many types of "fucked up" people. The rest is more problematic but there is not much one can do aside from professionals ofc. The lines would make the story weirder in the Sub route. Also they would not stop anyone from doing something. Should we burn books then? Ovid? Catull? Rewrite famous poems or other things as well? Obviously not.
And what you describe is not really true because the people who really do stuff like this do it for different reasons than being encouraged by a mere lines of a fictive game. It was also proven that words do not really change people since it was tried in quite a few cases.
The outcome of abusive situations even if depicted in a more positive light will not make normal people think its okay or more okay simply because they can think for themselves. Sure some people identify with the murderer of a novel and then kill someone but that has nothing to do with the novel. Don't forget the murderer in those novels were depicted as being wrong. Those people had some serious problems beforehand as previously mentioned. Another point would be that according to this argument we would see rise of people going on killing sprees because they played video games.
If that was the case that with a few lines of words we could "unfuck" peoples mind we would have solved many problems already which we didn't. If you have the wrong moral compass then the lines won't change that because with your morals you truly believe you are in the right. Simply as that. Rather it looks to me that you seem to kind of take the game way too serious. So the lines would amount to nothing and would rather make the Sub route weird since it's consensual and fictive. That would be overeacting.
Just wanted to point this out, psychology doesn't really work the way you think it works.
I don't understand these comments. Are people really playing a game with tags like "Male Domination", "BDSM" and "Slave"
... just to complain that it has maledom, bdsm and slave play?
... just to complain that it has maledom, bdsm and slave play?
- Jun 26, 2018
- 7,980
- 10,500
For each LI there are three routes: Romance, submission and slave.
I don't know what submission and slave are like, since I don't follow them with any LI, but in the romance routes the most my MC has done is leave one of the LIs tied to a column for a while. Except on that occasion, every time there has been a possibility of punishment it has been possible to reject it (and as I say, the only time that it hasn't been possible to reject it has been possible to carry out a "face the wall" type punishment without any type of physical action against the LI).
Furthermore, in the romance routes the MC during the non-sex scenes acts as expected of a rather vanilla romance route, without anything resembling maledom being seen in his behavior. So expecting that on these routes you can have rather vanilla sex scenes doesn't seem crazy at all to me, and even more so when the MC is not showing any interest in punishing the LIs, and when he is forced to do so, he tries to reduce it to the minimum expression.
Yup, absolutely. The vast majority are basically harmless towards others. That's not my point. But some can be harmful, and some won't be treated by just a few thousand visits to a psychiatrist.
You're viewing everything in black and white, evil or good, known-and-labelled-and-understood-and-treatable disorder or healthy, but almost everyone is in between that. My point is not about completely changing anyone; telling someone something a few times of course isn't going to fundamentally change them. I'm talking about small influences adding up, and in some cases and people they absolutely can.
I'm not talking about banning or burning anything, you're taking it way too far to make up a point. (Here's how I'd do that for you: "So what you're saying is that everyone should already know good and evil and all art is completely irrelevant to the way everyone acts? Then why does art exist in the first place if it doesn't matter?" But you're not saying that, so I'm not saying that. Wait, shit, I just sort of did... but the point I'm making there isn't about art, it's about argument.)
Almost every game I play here has bad scenarios, but I rarely point them out. It's not the actions in the sub route that worry me; if they did, I'd be freaking out about the slave route. Ultimately, what this comes down to is that the way the sub route is framed worries me; I think there is room for improvement in that regard. (Remember, I wrote like 17,000 words about things that I think can be improved.)
I think we've both made up our minds, so we're never going to agree. And that's OK; it doesn't mean that either of us is evil or anything.
So longer reply again but will be the last one don't want to bother others.
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I'm not very into bdsm and dom play but I'm okay with it. Only had experience with a few maledom femdom focused games before and seriously this game sub route is way tamer than others. So I don't get the complains either.
Just finished playing and here's my opinion, the romance route is well done of course. Sub route is hot and rather tame, it served its purpose as the dom sub play scenes. MC doesn't strike me as a sociopath or any pervert evil sack, that's how the dom play works in most of the games. And yes MC love and care for LI and it's mutual, that's how the sub route works. Same as most of the games where "inflicting pain" is part of the play. Honestly I don't see any indifference with how the dom-sub love portrayed here and other games where it has the same route.
Slave route might be "disturbing" for some but it's the difference where when dom play does not involve love. I didn't play the slave route but seen Riley's slave scene in gallery. What I initially thought MC would do was to treat her just like a piece of fuckmeat without being any care but then that would go against the MC's nature. He cared too much for them to be a complete human garbage for me to find it disturbing. Well that being said I have played a few games where I find the MC mind disturbing and sick as fuck, this MC here certainly not on the list yet
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Howdy again. Worry not, you didn't come across as someone who just wanted to rant, the main reason I responded the way I did was just that some of the constructive criticisms you left were things that I felt were down to a misunderstanding rather than a criticism of what it actually was. I do think you're right though that creatively speaking, we'd likely make very different games were you making your own xD
The main reason that I don't have a disclaimer at the start of the game reminding people that the kind of actions they can do in the game are unacceptable in real life is that I simply don't view it as my responsibility, any more than it's the responsibility of someone making a heist movie to tell the audience that robbing banks isn't allowed. It is entirely possible that someone with a messed up mind who actually does think this sort of thing is acceptable will play the game and interpret it as some sort of confirmation that they're right, but I think in a case like that a disclaimer isn't likely to alter their opinion. MC doesn't tend to have thoughts about the fucked up nature of what goes on too often simply because for players who make the decisions in the game to make the more hardcore stuff happen, that would almost be like kinkshaming in my opinion. I don't wanna tell people what they should or shouldn't be into, so I don't make a huge deal out of it other than some initial apprehension from MC depending on the specifics of what you do that doesn't last long, specifically for the reasons above.
Yeahh, that is one of the challenges of trying to make a fuckfest game, while also portraying the characters as actual people instead of just sex objects, while also having it possible for the player to basically just turn them into nothing but sex objects if they choose to. One of the reasons I started making the game in the first place was I got tired of games that were either characters with no personality that might as well be sex objects for all they bring to the table, or characters with amazing personalities, but you gotta play like 15 hours of conversation before you get any sexual content.
For me, if I want to experience hours of fantastic character development and dialogue without sexual content, porn games are not where I turn. What I'm trying to make is a game where you have a lot of sexual content, but you also get plenty of development of the characters to make that content more meaningful. I don't think getting to know a character can be rushed. Doing so really just results in the player knowing a bunch of random trivia about a character, rather than really knowing them. If you can get to know a character just as well from just reading a wiki entry about them as you can from actually playing the game, that to me is what an underdeveloped character is. I'm trying to avoid that being all that my characters are, it just can't be done too quickly without feeling unnatural in my opinion. (From an in game time perspective)
This is fair, but given MC has spoken to Akemi only a couple of times at this point in the story, I'm not sure telling her that logan was going after her sister would have made too much sense for MC. Akemi and MC aren't friends at this point, and going directly to her to try to solve a problem that he likely feels he could resolve himself just doesn't really feel like MC in my opinion. From an actual writing perspective though, the thing is that most people do not tend to like drama or conflict in their real lives, so they'll do whatever they can to avoid it, either by dealing with situations early or just taking steps to avoid them. But in media, it's the drama and conflict that brings most people in. Remove those and you don't really have a story in most cases, just a collection of people making optimal decisions, resulting in not much happening. MC doesn't immediately try to deal with Logan because doing so would remove any potential for a plotline surrounding the character.
This is also fair, but also quite subjective. What's likeable will differ between people. Sasha isn't really written to be liked or disliked, she's just written to be Sasha. When it comes to likeability, there isn't really a specific intention with any of the characters. They're just written with their traits and personalities and people who like or dislike their traits or personalities will like or dislike those characters accordingly. Even for Olivia. She's written to be a bitch, not unlikeable, however for many people a bitch character is inherently unlikeable, whilst for others it's a totally seperate thing.
It's very much a matter of perspective. I think in Sasha's case the intent is what will sway people one way or the other. She didn't blow MC in an attempt to take advantage of him, she thought she was solving a problem for herself, while also doing something MC would like. It's a win-win, right? Or so she thought... To some her ignorance of the reality of what she was doing will make her unlikeable, while to others her earnest attempt to do what she thought would help, and subsiquent genuine apology after she's been offered MC's perspective on it (Assuming you decide to punish her) may make her more likeable. Really depends on the person.
Hmm, I'd have to see exactly what the exception screens said to fix those, and I'd need more info on the crash to fix that too, but I guess someone will report them at some point if they're in the game. People are pretty good about that.
With regard to the image you sent. I had a look and it turns out that this particular bug only happens under specific circumstances. It only happens if you choose to tell Cassie that she can't persue her lesbian thing with Riley (Or use no spice mode), but also you get Riley's party ending where you get sex scenes with her, and then you choose to finger her, then use the dildo, and then opt out of the titfuck part. The bug itself is a result of me converting a whole bunch of the renders in the game to sprites to save on filesize (So far about 4GB saved), but it does require some code changes to work properly. It turns out the event sequence that plays out under those specific circumstances is one I forgot to do the code changes for, so it results in what you saw. I've now fixed it I think, so thanks for the report.
Anyway, I'm glad you liked the game overall. We clearly don't see eye to eye on all aspects of it but that doesn't make your opinion invalid imo. One thing I forgot to address before though was the idea of more romance in the romance scenes. This is a thing, there's just a reason it hasn't happened yet. The girls are into different things, and not all the girls currently have romance scenes. Riley's kink is basically ownership. It's just what she's into, but she's also new to relationships in general so the way she kinda introduces it is intentionally a bit clumsy. She has absolutely no idea what she's doing, but given how long she's known MC she feels safe telling him. I decided not to let players opt out of each girl's kink on the romance routes because those kinks aren't there as some sort of additional option or me collecting tags I can apply to the game, they're instead just part of the characters. I think if there's one route where MC is most likely to go with what the girl wants over all else, it's gonna be the romance routes.
Not all the girls are into dommy stuff though by default, so not all the girls will have romance routes with that kinda stuff. In my opinion dom/sub stuff and romance are not mutually exclusive. Different couples show affection in different ways, so the specifics of the romance route with each girl is intended to reflect that girl's preferences. The romance routes especially are intended to put priority on the girl's pleasure over MC's, so if a girl is into something, MC is gonna be going along with it on those routes. Female orgasm in general is a major focus of the game, be it forced, given, self-administered, denied, achieved remotely, tested to its limits, whatever. The girls will have their fair share of fun.
Good stuff. I like the way you approach things, even if I disagree with your conclusions. I still think (if you read that argument) that the sub route could be framed a little better, but I can see your point.
I was thinking more along the lines of Hikari, perhaps at the encouragement of the protagonist, telling Akemi about it. It doesn't seem unreasonable for her to say to her older sister "that creepy dude was following me and I'm not what I should do about it in this country." If I were in the protagonist's shoes, that's what I would have encouraged her to do. But I can see Hikari not wanting to have that conversation. But I would point out that guys like that are too delusional to quit on their own.
Sure, that's fair. But I believe that kinks are mostly unrelated to personality, so they could have different kinks depending on your choices. It makes sense, from a narrative perspective, that they all have subey kinks on the sub routes, but I don't think it would be unreasonable for them to have somewhat different kinks on the romance route, to cater to people with different kinks. Sort of like how Riley may or may not call the protagonist "daddy." Obviously it's your game and your decision and that's fine. But, as an audience member, that would be preferable for me. That's all I'm saying.
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Hmmmm, I've had a look at trying to reproduce the crash. It doesn't seem to happen for me, and this is the first time I've seen it reported. I've noticed thought that the crash log says you're on 0.22.05 instead of 0.22.06, so it could be something to do with that. I can't quite remember what exactly I fixed between those two.
Either way, if you have a save file that this happens for you on, I'd be happy to try it to see if I can reproduce the issue. The code itself at the line it's complaining about isn't anything too complicated, so it's hard to say what's going wrong here.