vogelbeest

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Jan 9, 2021
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for example a very important and critical piece of information is what sector MC's mom's death was in and where was Ella at that time (Sector wise) we have no clue if Ella and MC were even in the same sector at the time of the incident
Indeed we do not know what sector they were in. We do know Ella has a history of disappearing for months but we do know when superhuman powers are involved many of these limits just are meaningless. Even without the use of monsters like that worm or the hexenring Ella can be present in a large number of sectors in the timespan of months...

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But anyway, to go back to where it started : the question was if it was possible Ella was the one that killed MC's mother.
We don't have facts that suggests she did, we simply do not know what exactly happened.
Unless the father starts talking there's just not enough clues whatsoever...

So we have Ella, a shapeshifting superhuman you've never met, that greets you by your name when she is introduced to you. Clearly she is used to calling you by your name, she greets the others with "hi guys"... And later you find a list with names in her bedroom, yours on top but all your friends are on it... And several times later in the story she clearly shows signs of caring for you... So which personality has she been using around you before you meeting "Ella" and for how long? There's never any hints that suggests she cares for Deryl.... And he also was there when you first met...

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Clear signs Ella has been close enough to you for a longer period, this girl is ruthless and hardly ever shows affection besides towards Christie and Emily, up to a point towards "her" orphans and apparently you.....

We know from Emily and Christie what happened with Ella. But only Christie really was around at the time Ella got powers.
That's a single witness for anything that happened between Ella getting her powers until the start of her last year of high school... All her other classmates she presumably killed... How accurate is Christie's story? Nobody but Ella can confirm...

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This quote raises questions about the age/school system used : 14 seems to be considered early middle school?
We know MC starts University at age 18, we know Ella is 3 years older than Emily, we know Emily started high school when Ella and Christie were in the final year, we also know the band is put on hold when Emily starts University... Something really doesn't ad up here.... Middle school 11-14, high school 14 - 18.
If Middle school is 11 - 14 the game should have mentioned "late middle school" and the conclusion of MC hardly makes sense. There's no point in mentioning waiting till the last year, if everything happened in that year.....

Based on the Ella getting her powers early middle school means it's possible she killed MC's mother...
The conclusion of MC seems to be important for the story, a possible plot event...
But using the usual USA age system it seems MC's mother was killed one year before Ella got her powers....
SO the only conclusions we can make now is it's impossible and weirdworld messed up the timelines...
OR it's possible but middle school starts at 12... (But even in that case age 14 is not early middle school...)

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Hmm... MC's father has been gone almost 2 years? So who has been close enough to MC for Ella to disguise in?
IF Ella used MC's fathers identity she must have been doing it for a long time to automatically blurt out MC's name as herself.
Then again she could have used the form of the twins or Deryl, however you didn't see Liz and Amber for a while either.
Seems unlikely since it's much harder if you need to keep up appearances to more than one person though...
And the story really doesn't give us many options... The shopkeeper perhaps? But he mostly calls you Charlie...

Also Ella hasn't been seen at her known residence for several years either according to Clark...
Is MC's father busy following Ella? Or has Ella been using his identity all these years? Or is it all just coincidence?
Either way Ella has been very busy past 2 years and so has your father....
And why does he return exactly on the night you're collecting his gun to go visit Ella?
Then meeting him again outside the stripclub where he just happens to follow Jeff and Brianna on their way to Klaus...

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Eleven days passed before his mother returned? First day a babysitter was arranged, so 10 days of unexpected delay? What on earth happened? I'm afraid we really need more clues... Time to get into father's memories next time we meet!
 

TerminusPrime

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Nov 23, 2020
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Since everyone is throwing some wild theories out there, how about this one:

The black monster we see in the "too strong too soon" bad end is actually the MC's mom in monster form. Due to an early monsterfication gone wrong, she lost control turned into a monster instead of a superhuman but still retained enough sense to flee instead of killing her family when she realized she had hurt her son. Ella seems to recognize that monster and despite instantly crushing the monster that was about to kill the MC, the black monster instead captures him and pulls him into some light, too bad we don't see what happens afterwards or what happened to Ella in that ending...
The Monster from the Too Strong Too Soon bad end is the 7th, one of the supposedly dead numbered monsters. It also is the monster that infected Valravyn hundreds of years in the past, so it's not the MC's mom.
We're likely to find out more information about that monster as the game goes on.
 

Simpgor

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Apr 18, 2020
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None of this explains why she infected/involved Dave..... Why would she impersonate MC dad for years but then use Dave to get to you? Surely as MC Dad you could arrange a situation where MC and Ella are alone like say for example MC Dad (really Ella) gets a big titty goth stripper for MC.... Honestly Ella could even continue to impersonate his dad. This also gets MC earlier when he is around less super powered/influential people and is more likely to rely on Ella.

Why even infect Dave (a failure) at all? We know he was on the same list so she had to do some amount of research on him but he was still a 100% abject failure who would be dead if not for her? The idea that she is able to plan around and manipulate multiple different people but then involve people who we know didnt matter (her plan is working without Dave) seems kinda inconsistent.

What about Dexter? Does MC Dad know him or just Ella? Its clear that Dexter hasnt made any connection between the two because that would have been good to bring up at the meeting about her
 
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New Kid

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Apr 2, 2018
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The Monster from the Too Strong Too Soon bad end is the 7th, one of the supposedly dead numbered monsters. It also is the monster that infected Valravyn hundreds of years in the past, so it's not the MC's mom.
We're likely to find out more information about that monster as the game goes on.
Really? That one is the 7th? I must have missed something... didn't Valravn say that he had to check on the enemies of his lord when he bailed the first time the MC was fighting him in that alley? That would imply his lord was still alive no?
 
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RonaldGrand6969

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Aug 30, 2019
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The Monster from the Too Strong Too Soon bad end is the 7th, one of the supposedly dead numbered monsters. It also is the monster that infected Valravyn hundreds of years in the past, so it's not the MC's mom.
We're likely to find out more information about that monster as the game goes on.
Wait are you referring to the Ending where Ella takes us to see Father (or Mother) but then the Unknown Monster shows up and murders Father only to kill you later? Ella does complain in shock that it can't be possible, but if it really was the 7th and the upper monsters are rated by strength, how on god's green earth did the 7th one shot the 3rd?
 

Neverwonder

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Oct 14, 2019
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Wait are you referring to the Ending where Ella takes us to see Father (or Mother) but then the Unknown Monster shows up and murders Father only to kill you later? Ella does complain in shock that it can't be possible, but if it really was the 7th and the upper monsters are rated by strength, how on god's green earth did the 7th one shot the 3rd?
There was another post theorizing that the monster that in the Too Strong Too Fast ending is the central piece of the number monster and it just simply absorb the 3rd or 4th depending on who your choice and is absorbing the other number to reform itself. Hence why 6 to 14 ( I think I don't remember the total number) are either dead, missing, or are reabsorb into it. Then again it could just be a separate unknown monster doing who know what.
 

Neverwonder

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Oct 14, 2019
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There was another post theorizing that the monster that in the Too Strong Too Fast ending is the central piece of the number monster and it just simply absorb the 3rd or 4th depending on who your choice and is absorbing the other number to reform itself. Hence why 6 to 14 ( I think I don't remember the total number) are either dead, missing, or are reabsorb into it. Then again it could just be a separate unknown monster doing who know what. OR I could be entirely wrong all to together
 

vogelbeest

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Jan 9, 2021
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Well, there's that evolution scene where you get a memory that isn't yours. It was interpreted as numbered monsters no longer being there so dead/killed... But it's really kinda vague to be honest...

"A memory enters my mind."
"A memory that is not my own."
You "The moon? How can it..."
You "The twelve...."
You "No, the six... seven through twelve have already been..."
You "Uunnngh-"
You "What? What am I talking about? What am I doing? I...."
You "But that doesn't make sense... What am I..."

and later :

You "They'll come from the moon..."

Monsters are either drawn to the sea/ocean or to the moon, Bailey tells you something similar.
12 moons is a year, moon (month) 7th - 12th already gone means it's the first month?
The memory is from the first person/creature that got infected waiting for an invasion in June from the moon...
Perhaps he/she even became the 3rd/4th (depending on who your monster parent is)
Seems a somewhat valid explanation for this memory too?

Lets hope our next evolution gives more insight, but it's doubtful any of the "gone" numbered monsters will appear.
Valravn says the Lords have still to arrive, perhaps it's one of them?
 

Aristarkhos

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Jun 23, 2017
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Wait are you referring to the Ending where Ella takes us to see Father (or Mother) but then the Unknown Monster shows up and murders Father only to kill you later? Ella does complain in shock that it can't be possible, but if it really was the 7th and the upper monsters are rated by strength, how on god's green earth did the 7th one shot the 3rd?
They're not ranked by strength.
The 1st is once referred to as the Firstborn.
Their ranks are thus in order of creation.
The 7th-12th aren't stated to be dead, by the way. That's an assumption.
"No, the six... seven through twelve have already been..."
No further information. Anyways-
It was the 4th it destroyed, not the 3rd. It's always the 4th in that scene.
And they manifest as avatars- So that probably didn't really kill the 4th.
We know it's the 7th because we know the monster that infected Valravn is the 7th through his monster report.
The hand shown in Valravn's infection flashback is the same as crushes Mother Memory.
Thus the 7th, Lord of Dark, is alive, and destroyed Memory's avatar in the dead end.

And to substantiate my claims-
1683674368715.png
1683674250723.png 1683674306358.png
 
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RonaldGrand6969

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Aug 30, 2019
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I feel like I'm missing info (or forgetting). Let me see if I got my facts straight and you guys can either add or correct me if I'm wrong (I'll try to divide it by sections):


A. History/Plot:

1. A replacement war for WW2 occured, in which M-Corp created the M-Division; which consisted of 2,000 (or so) elite soldiers that changed the tide, and unified the world under one form of government. It was later revealed that the Captains of H.E.R.O were behind this endeavor.

2. H.E.R.O is an independent company hosted by Dexter, richest man alive, and a sequel to his father's M-Corp. They have been quelling the annihilation of the human race from Monster attacks around the globe.

3. H.E.R.O has a council of individuals that make the decisions for the company, but each have their own motives. They also have teams each with a Captain and Lieutenant.


4. Your Dad does some shady shit and got you into R&X, a prestigious school for the elite in Sector 1, but is later also found to host H.E.R.O's primary base of operations.


B. Secret Stuff:

1. Your Mom was found dead in her bedroom despite your valiant watch for her presumable leave for 11 days. This all happened during your middle school age.

2. H.E.R.O has been experimenting on monsters, one of which was the one Kenny called "Mother".

3. Deus has been helping the MC along, and is able to see right through the fact that he is shapeshifted into a different person (EXTREMELY SUS THAT AINT FUTURE SIGHT AS WE NEVER TURN BACK INTO OUR ORIGINAL OR REVEAL OURSELVES). Going so far as to give Valravn's heart back to make the MC have a brighter challenge. Doesn't trust Ella yet doesn't help H.E.R.O dig up anything new on her.


C. Ella:

1. Ella was bullied as a middle school child, only to go missing after lossing her parents, and coming bad different (presumably Superhuman). She then was one of only 2 survivors for a massacre that annihilated her entire end of the year class.

2. Ella gave you pills to attract a Monster to attack you and give you Superhuman abilities. She has been found to do this to loads of other people, some failing and turning into Miniak (I believe is the term) while others successful.

3. Ella runs an orphanage in which she sometimes creates Superhumans out of.

4. Ella has been giving you a series of tests by sending various Superhumans to replace you, for whatever plans she may have; these consist of Kenny, Jake, and Deryl in that order.

5 HEAVY AREA. Ella made a deal with Jared's father, in order to obtain a piece of a Heart? And later revealed to gain access to a new sub base of operations for her Orphanage.

6. Ella has been helping Charlie find her brother, this is later revealed to be Del.

7. Ella made Jake a Superhuman in order to mind control Deryl, as a way to have undying loyalty for him to become a Superhuman and repair a Heart.

8. Ella also used Jake to gain access to H.E.R.O as a way to not only spy on them (unsuccessful) but to also collect an artificial serum that kickstarts someone's 5th Evolution (one of her many goals).

9. Ella's Evolution wasn't exactly what she wanted, as she DID NOT receive the call from her monster parent like she wanted to.

10 HEAVY AREA. Ella ALSO used Jake's ability to gain access to the Prime Minister's mining resources, as a way to get underground and obtain yet another piece of the Heart?

11 HEAVY AREA. Ella's orphan Superhumans (minus Charlie) have been scouring the globe to collect not only Monsters, but these Heart? fragments to give to Ella.

12. Ella wants you to succeed for whatever purpose she has, presumably to get in contact with her/your parent monster at Lvl 5; which she failed the criteria for.

Sidenote HEAVY AREA. Ella got mad about something, I couldn't remember what it was off the top of my head but she was throwing and breaking stuff due to the loss of it.


D. Superhumans:
1. You have 2 parent monsters, the 3rd (alive) and the 4th (alive); ability to have mental resistance/mindtap and shapeshifting.

2 HEAVY AREA. Ella has 1 parent monster, the 4th (alive); ability to shapeshift.

3. Alice has 1 monster parent, the pixie you find during the Mafia plotline (alive); ability to manipulate certain forms of gravity.

4. Michael has 2? monster parents, the 2nd (alive) and the Lightning guy (forgot the name)(dead); ability to either use radiation? (the second) or lightning.

5. Danica has 1 monster parent, the cross monster (forgot the name again)(alive); ability to "mark" enemies with a lethal cross in various ways.

6. Demi has 1 monster parent, the second coming of christ (alive); ability to infatuate people or change the feelings of others.

7. Charlie has 1 monster parent, unknown (unknown); ability to set conditions/rules on a target but is limited to like 5?

8. Deus has 1 monster parent (presumably), unknown (unknown); ability to see the future (potentially has night terrors).

9. Zach has 1 monster parent (presumably), unknown (unknown); ability over time? Is noted as Xanthe's ace before Deus came along. Perhaps he can step into the future to predict attacks? (Still injured from a previous fight with a monster).

Sidenote. The other Superhumans I know about so don't worry about listing those I missed.

Sidenote. I paid attention to Superhuman 101 so I got all the conditions, percentages, levels, life states, etc.


E. Monsters:

Sidenote. The MAJORITY of my questions lie here, please help a brotha out if ya can.

1. A parent monster is the monster that infected you. They sometimes do it unintentionally or on purpose.

2 HEAVY AREA. Monsters have a threat level ranking from E to S, but they also are divided by class with crazy planet names.

3 HEAVY AREA. There are 12 "Numbered" which are ranked by strength as the original monster which all lower monsters branch off from in accordance to ability similarities.

4 HEAVY AREA.Most of the Numbered are dead, with the ones we know of as alive are the 1st (unknown alias), the 2nd (unknown alias), the 3rd (Father), the 4th (Mother).

5. There is a sub spices of monster known as the Miniak (probably butchered); which are the reminiscent of monster material or failed superhumans that CANNOT pass on abilities to humans.

6 HEAVY AREA. The monsters presumably come from the Moon, as during the sewer fight monster, you can connect with the Miniak and she refers to the Moon, this is later backed up by talking with "something" and seeing it reach up from the Moon during the Mafia plotline?

7 HEAVY AREA. Kenny, Bailey, and some of the other Miniaks refer to "Mother", but it is presumed NOT to be the same mother as the 4th.
-Because Kenny can drag you off in one of the dead ends to what he refers to as "Mother".
-Bailey is a product of Kenny's material, and yet despite the Miniak Kenny refers to being captured by H.E.R.O, she says yet ANOTHER mother calls to her form the ocean?
That entire area is a heavy zone for WTF for me, perhaps I'm wrong on everything but feel free to clarify for me.

8. Monster corpses can be used as armor with various effects.

9. Level 5 Superhumans can receive a "purpose" from their parent monster of seemed worth enough.

10 HEAVY AREA. You receive various dreams from the 3rd and 4th (if there is anything important I missed, let me know).

11. The dream sequence you receive after killing Jake is of the 1st, where other monsters of various heights in strength dwell. The 1st chases you (presumably upset) before the 3rd and the 4th entangle her and trap her under the ground.

12. Valravn was a crow turned into a monster by a WILLING monster parent. Which he valiantly served before they were cut down by whatever means.

13. The monsters' presumable goal is to annihilate/and or integrate into the human race, and some genetic mutation caused some of their DNA to merge with humans (and animals).



F. Dead Ends:

Sidenote. Another MAJORITY of my questions lie here. Help me out if you can list anything with lore relevant information, or theory crafting ones.

Sidenote. I'm only listing "mysterious" ones or extended inf providers rather than hilarious stupid deaths.

1 HEAVY AREA. Ella kills you if you "beat" her in a fight, she then leads you to the 3rd or 4th? Presumably to see if you are worthy of joining in on her plan? Before an Unknown GODLIKE FUCKING ENTITY the 3rd or 4th. This was NOT what Ella expected, and while it doesn't mention (from what I remember) if it kills Ella; it DEFINITELY kills you.

2. When you lose to Kenny, you are brought to his "Mother", the context of my questions mainly refer to why he calls her "Mother" is it his parent monster? But it looks like a Miniak so...(refer to Section Monster 7).

3 HEAVY AREA. You can die to Ella due to "progressing too fast?" when showing the jellyfish move. And yet she doesn't kill you for progressing even faster during the initial apartment fight. Was there something I missed?

I believe that's everything I do know about in regards to you have to play and pay attention to know. Help me out if ya want I guess, or don't. But I'd much rather wait till the game is finished to have to play back through EVERYTHING searching for EVERY little detail with my terrible memory. At this point I feel like I'm as dumb as the MC, just waiting for the info to be thrown at my face, and yet I've seen a lot of the side info from dreams and what not just never put it together as well as other peeps on here I guess.

Edit: I do NOT have access to Patreon posts and I've heard whispers there is additional information from them so while you don't have to pirate the shit you can definitely tell me the important deets.
 
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DrakoGhoul

Engaged Member
Jul 13, 2018
3,061
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They're not ranked by strength.
The 1st is once referred to as the Firstborn.
Their ranks are thus in order of creation.
The 7th-12th aren't stated to be dead, by the way. That's an assumption.
"No, the six... seven through twelve have already been..."
No further information. Anyways-
It was the 4th it destroyed, not the 3rd. It's always the 4th in that scene.
And they manifest as avatars- So that probably didn't really kill the 4th.
We know it's the 7th because we know the monster that infected Valravn is the 7th through his monster report.
The hand shown in Valravn's infection flashback is the same as crushes Mother Memory.
Thus the 7th, Lord of Dark, is alive, and destroyed Memory's avatar in the dead end.

And to substantiate my claims-
View attachment 2609227
View attachment 2609224 View attachment 2609226
I'm still interested in hearing your thoughts on the scene with the 1st in his plane. Since, you're of the thought that they're all just using Avatars. Do you think the 1st was using one there in it's plane or was that it's true self appearing? If yes, then do you also think the 3rd and 4th were using their avatars to take his true self down in his plane or do you think they actually appeared and took him down?

I'm also interested in your thoughts about the 2nd manifesting. From the way Valravn reacted and how the avatar angle is being interpreted, do you think the 2nd actually came in person and not through an avatar? Since Valravn said it can't stay long which assumes that the real thing actually came from it's plane.

I went more in-depth with these questions in my older reply to you but these are the ones I'm more interested in hearing your opinions on.

3. Deus has been helping the MC along, and is able to see right through the fact that he is shapeshifted into a different person (EXTREMELY SUS THAT AINT FUTURE SIGHT AS WE NEVER TURN BACK INTO OUR ORIGINAL OR REVEAL OURSELVES). Going so far as to give Valravn's heart back to make the MC have a brighter challenge. Doesn't trust Ella yet doesn't help H.E.R.O dig up anything new on her.
For this specific point, you answered your own question. Deus has been helping the MC all along which means before he even infiltrated HERO. He would've already known the MC would shapeshift into the girl because he saw it before the event happened. Just like he already saw the future with the MC and Ella.

I'm not saying Deus doesn't have more than future sight, by the way. He eluded to having more than it when you talked to him. Then there's the fact that he's able to fight the S-Rank M-33(Nico's monster). I'm just saying that nothing contradicts him using his future sight in the past to see the events of the MC before he even entered the base in the future. We know he used it to help Lexi and Clark to find Ella in the park, which shocked her, and that he told Dexter that Tiffany will kill him in the future, if I remember it right.
 

RonaldGrand6969

Active Member
Aug 30, 2019
933
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For this specific point, you answered your own question. Deus has been helping the MC all along which means before he even infiltrated HERO. He would've already known the MC would shapeshift into the girl because he saw it before the event happened. Just like he already saw the future with the MC and Ella.

I'm not saying Deus doesn't have more than future sight, by the way. He eluded to having more than it when you talked to him. Then there's the fact that he's able to fight the S-Rank M-33(Nico's monster). I'm just saying that nothing contradicts him using his future sight in the past to see the events of the MC before he even entered the base in the future. We know he used it to help Lexi and Clark to find Ella in the park, which shocked her, and that he told Dexter that Tiffany will kill him in the future, if I remember it right.
Yeah sorry I'm not that smart, guess I didn't even think of that :ROFLMAO:
My hero as always Drako.
 

RonaldGrand6969

Active Member
Aug 30, 2019
933
3,543
They're not ranked by strength.
The 1st is once referred to as the Firstborn.
Their ranks are thus in order of creation.
The 7th-12th aren't stated to be dead, by the way. That's an assumption.
"No, the six... seven through twelve have already been..."
No further information. Anyways-
It was the 4th it destroyed, not the 3rd. It's always the 4th in that scene.
And they manifest as avatars- So that probably didn't really kill the 4th.
We know it's the 7th because we know the monster that infected Valravn is the 7th through his monster report.
The hand shown in Valravn's infection flashback is the same as crushes Mother Memory.
Thus the 7th, Lord of Dark, is alive, and destroyed Memory's avatar in the dead end.

And to substantiate my claims-
View attachment 2609227
View attachment 2609224 View attachment 2609226
Ahhh, I think I was getting what Ella said confused. I she referred to the 3rd and 4th as ridiculously powerful on the hierarchy so I guess I just assumed everything above or below them was either stronger or weaker.

Guess I also don't know where I got them being dead from, maybe that was from a thread theory I saw a while back and just rolled with it, though I do remember Valravn saying the 7-12 line.

Yeah I was referring to the Ella dead end scene, was it the 4th that died or the 3rd?

Where does it say the Numbered use avatars? If you don't mind my asking.

I didn't have access to the monster reports so that's my fault. So if the 3rd is Mind shit, the 4th is shapeshifting or body or whatever, the 1st is Control, what do we think the 7th is based on Valravn's deets?
 
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ItzSyther

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2018
1,650
8,650
Ladies and Gentlemen....we have three choices:
A) Jake with Tits
B) Michael with Tits
C) Deryl with Tits
Mind you, all three fine sirs are still male but with tits. Which one you picking?
 
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Aristarkhos

Newbie
Jun 23, 2017
93
219
Ahhh, I think I was getting what Ella said confused. I she referred to the 3rd and 4th as ridiculously powerful on the hierarchy so I guess I just assumed everything above or below them was either stronger or weaker.

Guess I also don't know where I got them being dead from, maybe that was from a thread theory I saw a while back and just rolled with it, though I do remember Valravn saying the 7-12 line.

Yeah I was referring to the Ella dead end scene, was it the 4th that died or the 3rd?

Where does it say the Numbered use avatars? If you don't mind my asking.

I didn't have access to the monster reports so that's my fault. So if the 3rd is Mind shit, the 4th is shapeshifting or body or whatever, the 1st is Control, what do we think the 7th is based on Valravn's deets?
I'm working on some answers to your longer post, after which I'll get to Drako's if I can think of anything.
In the dead end, it is the 4th, Mother Memory, that is destroyed.
Valravn doesn't refer to any of them by numbers except the Second.
The 7-12 line is from MC's evolution.
7-12 being dead is a common assumption. Probably intended. But 7, at minimum, lives.
As for the numbered using avatars-
Xanthe has a conversation with Tiffany about her monster being the avatar of a monster stronger than any recorded.
Also this- 1683679302826.png
The Lord of Dark being the 7th.
 
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