- Aug 21, 2018
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Already called the MC mom being a monster XD.
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- Jul 13, 2018
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I'm not really understanding the problem here. How would the Apostle Twins sharing their twins ability defeat the purpose? They are born from the same source, the Arbiter. You know, the being that has the original trait of the twins combined? It's not even like they're experts with each other's ability. The 4th is great with her Memory Trait, for obvious reasons, and yet the 3rd sucked at it. Them being able to pass on their twin trait isn't even a big deal, going off of Ella's and Aglaecwif reaction. Also, what does the Apostle Twins appearance have to do with anything? There's nothing that says the twins have to look a like. Even in real life twins don't have to be identical. That seems like an odd point to try and make.
As for you dying on the hill, why would I care? You're allowed to do whatever you want, just like myself. Going with what's shown in game though, we see only one twin infect the MC. We see that one acknowledged by everyone that comments on it and only see that one during majority of the scenes that involve the parent showing up. The MC only refers to one as Mother or Father. Even in the scene with both of them. Aglaecwif also cosigns Ella about Jake being able to get Order, which requires the Power Trait from the 2nd, and we know he's only the spawn of the 1st.
There's also a huge flaw here and I'm surprised you didn't realize it. Why didn't Ella get the Memory Trait if "team work" is the only requirement? Was she unlucky? But according to you, there shouldn't be any luck involved. Ella expected the Memory Trait at multiple points and yet she failed. So is she just the spawn of the 3rd? But if that's the case why would she expect the Memory Trait if team work is what made the dream work? Or is she also the spawn of the 3rd and 4th? But then why didn't she get both if all it takes is "team work" from them? Why wouldn't they work together for Ella, who was also compatible but do it for the MC? Sound like luck does play a part and that the MC is special, regardless if you believed that both of them were required.
Hell, why not have more spawns with both traits if all it took was them working together and infecting the same person? So, pick your poison, I guess. Either Ella is only the spawn of the 3rd but she felt like she could get the 4th's trait, which contradicts you since she would know better than us and you said it doesn't work that way. Or she's the spawn of both like the MC but didn't get it regardless of them working together, which would still go against the notion that both infecting a single person gives both traits. Either way you go, it would contradict your own view on it since there's conditions for it all. You can always take option 3 and say Ella was just wrong but then you'll have to say that about a lot of things she said. Especially since she claimed to know more about monsters than any other human or superhuman in game.
Lastly, there's nothing in the story that, "narratively" contradicts getting both from one twin. Monsters pass on their "genes, traits and powers" via infection. It's already confirmed in game that the 3rd and 4th share their traits. If power and traits are passed on via infection then why wouldn't the 4th, who has the Memory Trait and a certain level of the Body Trait, pass on both, if they're compatible enough? Same with the 3rd, who we know has the Memory Trait but is bad at it. The MC having a perfect balance means nothing when his traits were at the very bottom of their growth. It's like saying a Novice Mage with fire and lightning spells is perfect compared to a Expert who has fire mastery with lower lightning spells. Of course he'd seem perfect when he's wielding low level spells currently.
Tldr: Basically, this is being needlessly over complicated when the game shows you plenty of reasons for it to be multiple ways. There really shouldn't be a hang up here besides ones own personal belief getting in the way.
It's not really a theory, to be frank. Ella already confirmed cross inheritance is a thing when she saw that the MC only got shapeshifting and said "I thought as much" even though you're a spawn of the 4th. Her and Aglaecwif thoughts on Jake and inheriting both traits lead to confirmation as well.
You don't really have to look at the 7th. Though I did point it out that he used Light to kill the MC as supporting evidence that the 8th is Light. All you would have to do is look at the 3rd in the beginning after trying the 4th. It's clear he tried to read the MC's Memory but couldn't get it to work without hurting the MC so he used his Devouring Tentacle instead. MC later retells it when talking to Alice and Clark about how he was turned.
The 7th having Light, in some portion, just proves that the Twins, even outside of the 3rd and 4th, share their traits. Even when they don't work together. Could it increase in potency if they did, or the likely hood of their spawn getting both traits? Possibly.
Interesting take. One I haven't really thought about, admittedly. That still would mean only one, potentially, infected the MC though. Even in that scene when they used their injection, you'll notice the color matches the color of themselves and not a mix of both. The 4th's liquid in her injection is pink, while the 3rd is bluish purple. If the purpose was to give both via that method, only one was required, since they did both and the twin didn't do the other.
If both injections had the same color or the opposite twin came and did it than I could see why one would think they both mixed theirs together. But in game, only one did both and the color matched the twin who did it which would prove only one had a hand in it, not both. If this method is accurate.
Anyway, that ends my ridiculously long post. You guys are going to have to suffer this wall of text because I didn't spoiler shit.
- Jul 13, 2018
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Damn, Tiffany is hot. I like Claudia as well. Dexter looks smooth but why does he look like he's their brother? He could use a bit of aging up.Gentlemans, I was promoted after the successful spy misson of S.I.N base to become personal agent for Mr Prime Minister Dexter Miliken, which was an opportunity to get a look at the Miliken family. Claudia was such a nice girl so today I bring you the most wealthy family of the entire world.
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Share your thoughts and opinions, I would love to see more and more of them since they feed my corruption. Who know when I reach the peak of it, what will happen?
- Aug 21, 2018
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Ha joke's on you i Saw the meme first and i knew you were just being mean XDI'm not really understanding the problem here. How would the Apostle Twins sharing their twins ability defeat the purpose? They are born from the same source, the Arbiter. You know, the being that has the original trait of the twins combined? It's not even like they're experts with each other's ability. The 4th is great with her Memory Trait, for obvious reasons, and yet the 3rd sucked at it. Them being able to pass on their twin trait isn't even a big deal, going off of Ella's and Aglaecwif reaction. Also, what does the Apostle Twins appearance have to do with anything? There's nothing that says the twins have to look a like. Even in real life twins don't have to be identical. That seems like an odd point to try and make.
As for you dying on the hill, why would I care? You're allowed to do whatever you want, just like myself. Going with what's shown in game though, we see only one twin infect the MC. We see that one acknowledged by everyone that comments on it and only see that one during majority of the scenes that involve the parent showing up. The MC only refers to one as Mother or Father. Even in the scene with both of them. Aglaecwif also cosigns Ella about Jake being able to get Order, which requires the Power Trait from the 2nd, and we know he's only the spawn of the 1st.
There's also a huge flaw here and I'm surprised you didn't realize it. Why didn't Ella get the Memory Trait if "team work" is the only requirement? Was she unlucky? But according to you, there shouldn't be any luck involved. Ella expected the Memory Trait at multiple points and yet she failed. So is she just the spawn of the 3rd? But if that's the case why would she expect the Memory Trait if team work is what made the dream work? Or is she also the spawn of the 3rd and 4th? But then why didn't she get both if all it takes is "team work" from them? Why wouldn't they work together for Ella, who was also compatible but do it for the MC? Sound like luck does play a part and that the MC is special, regardless if you believed that both of them were required.
Hell, why not have more spawns with both traits if all it took was them working together and infecting the same person? So, pick your poison, I guess. Either Ella is only the spawn of the 3rd but she felt like she could get the 4th's trait, which contradicts you since she would know better than us and you said it doesn't work that way. Or she's the spawn of both like the MC but didn't get it regardless of them working together, which would still go against the notion that both infecting a single person gives both traits. Either way you go, it would contradict your own view on it since there's conditions for it all. You can always take option 3 and say Ella was just wrong but then you'll have to say that about a lot of things she said. Especially since she claimed to know more about monsters than any other human or superhuman in game.
Lastly, there's nothing in the story that, "narratively" contradicts getting both from one twin. Monsters pass on their "genes, traits and powers" via infection. It's already confirmed in game that the 3rd and 4th share their traits. If power and traits are passed on via infection then why wouldn't the 4th, who has the Memory Trait and a certain level of the Body Trait, pass on both, if they're compatible enough? Same with the 3rd, who we know has the Memory Trait but is bad at it. The MC having a perfect balance means nothing when his traits were at the very bottom of their growth. It's like saying a Novice Mage with fire and lightning spells is perfect compared to a Expert who has fire mastery with lower lightning spells. Of course he'd seem perfect when he's wielding low level spells currently.
Tldr: Basically, this is being needlessly over complicated when the game shows you plenty of reasons for it to be multiple ways. There really shouldn't be a hang up here besides ones own personal belief getting in the way.
It's not really a theory, to be frank. Ella already confirmed cross inheritance is a thing when she saw that the MC only got shapeshifting and said "I thought as much" even though you're a spawn of the 4th. Her and Aglaecwif thoughts on Jake and inheriting both traits lead to confirmation as well.
You don't really have to look at the 7th. Though I did point it out that he used Light to kill the MC as supporting evidence that the 8th is Light. All you would have to do is look at the 3rd in the beginning after trying the 4th. It's clear he tried to read the MC's Memory but couldn't get it to work without hurting the MC so he used his Devouring Tentacle instead. MC later retells it when talking to Alice and Clark about how he was turned.
The 7th having Light, in some portion, just proves that the Twins, even outside of the 3rd and 4th, share their traits. Even when they don't work together. Could it increase in potency if they did, or the likely hood of their spawn getting both traits? Possibly.
Interesting take. One I haven't really thought about, admittedly. That still would mean only one, potentially, infected the MC though. Even in that scene when they used their injection, you'll notice the color matches the color of themselves and not a mix of both. The 4th's liquid in her injection is pink, while the 3rd is bluish purple. If the purpose was to give both via that method, only one was required, since they did both and the twin didn't do the other.
If both injections had the same color or the opposite twin came and did it than I could see why one would think they both mixed theirs together. But in game, only one did both and the color matched the twin who did it which would prove only one had a hand in it, not both. If this method is accurate.
Anyway, that ends my ridiculously long post. You guys are going to have to suffer this wall of text because I didn't spoiler shit.
- Jun 23, 2017
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Ella most likely simply isn't nearly as compatible with Memory (and Memory's powers) as she is with Body. Which those two would likely recognize. We have yet to see her infection in any flashback or the like. So we can only speculate.
I did not contradict this, and I agree. MC is stated at multiple points to be the spawn of one Apostle, not both.
- Jul 5, 2022
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It makes a lot of sense IMO. With the odd descriptions and the small flashback where he lost his eyes. She was definitely “monstrous”.
- Jul 13, 2018
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That was my point though. She isn't compatible and yet she expected the memory trait to come all the way up until she was level 5. If it wasn't possible at all to inherit the other trait without both doing it, why would she still think she could get it when she was only compatible with the 3rd? Why would she think Jake could get the Power trait and by extension Order, when he's the spawn of the 1st?
Ella knows the most about monsters and she thought it wasn't bizarre that the MC only got shapeshifting, when the 4th did the infecting. That shows that it happened on several occasions prior and while it's not common, there's a chance that some people cross inherit abilities.
No problem. I expanded on it to show that with this new angle, it would further prove a single twin did it all. I actually didn't think about the scanning memories thing beyond them just checking compatibility. Them using it to pass on the memory trait and then using the injection for the body trait flew under my radar.
I just thought the 4th was being a closet pervert and the 3rd was getting pissed that he couldn't copy his sister so he took drastic actions. He probably was sulking to her after the MC passed out. I'm joking obviously.
- Jul 13, 2021
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Let me expand a bit on the Apostle powers and why I think it's more complicated. I will delve into my needlessly complex theory, trying to determine the cosmology of this game.
Clue 1) Both Aglaecwif and Valravn refer to Apostles as gods. While Valravn doesn't do explicitly, he doesn't argue when MC calls them gods.
Assumption 1) Apostles are not monsters. They are gods of the lowest order and the originators of monsterkind. They are either the keepers of divine power that shaped the universe or the literal expression of these powers. Each power by itself is unable to shape the universe, but when combined they can. We don't know why the Arbiters created these inheritors and vanished but it seems to be the case.
Clue 2) Aglaecwif hasn't met any monster or human that has inherited the twin powers since the Origin.
Assumption 2) Avatars are nowhere near the real thing. They are puppets to be used by the Apostles and compared to them it's like kids playing with imaginary swords, not even toy ones. They are flawed monster creations that don't really carry the power of Apostles but a mutated version of it, even if they have access to "both" of the traits. Basically what we think is the pinnacle of monster, is nothing compared to what's a step above.
Assumption 3) Aglaecwif has met with at least one of the Apostle avatars. There was some talk in the forum that she is the direct descendant of an Apostle but I can't find the info in the script so I'll just take it for granded because it fits my theory. So the clue and the assumption combined points to Avatars not having the twin powers.
Clue 3) The origin (Eye) while possessing MC, literally says that the place near where the MC's body awakens is a part of him and born of him.
Assumption 4) The origin is all the matter in the universe. Everything that can be described as matter is an extension of it's body.
Based on these clues and assumptions, it seems to me that the avatars do not have the twin traits themselves, rather a mutated combination of them (just like Oil is part Authority, part Body and part Darkness, but doesn't have the actual 3 original traits), but as with all biological things and taking into account the assumption that they are just the "monsters", birthed from the Apostles themselves, it's possible to pass on their genes. Their power is flawed and the actual traits are recessive, but thanks to MC's unique circumstances, having connection to the Origin, he manages to activate these recessive genes when he gets infected.
I'm stopping here cause I feel like I'm overreaching again. While I'm trying to follow the clues and tie them to what I believe is the inspiration for the setting, the truth is that we don't have enough info for me to substantiate my theories to a point that I'm confident about them.
Clue 1) Both Aglaecwif and Valravn refer to Apostles as gods. While Valravn doesn't do explicitly, he doesn't argue when MC calls them gods.
Assumption 1) Apostles are not monsters. They are gods of the lowest order and the originators of monsterkind. They are either the keepers of divine power that shaped the universe or the literal expression of these powers. Each power by itself is unable to shape the universe, but when combined they can. We don't know why the Arbiters created these inheritors and vanished but it seems to be the case.
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Clue 2) Aglaecwif hasn't met any monster or human that has inherited the twin powers since the Origin.
Assumption 2) Avatars are nowhere near the real thing. They are puppets to be used by the Apostles and compared to them it's like kids playing with imaginary swords, not even toy ones. They are flawed monster creations that don't really carry the power of Apostles but a mutated version of it, even if they have access to "both" of the traits. Basically what we think is the pinnacle of monster, is nothing compared to what's a step above.
Assumption 3) Aglaecwif has met with at least one of the Apostle avatars. There was some talk in the forum that she is the direct descendant of an Apostle but I can't find the info in the script so I'll just take it for granded because it fits my theory. So the clue and the assumption combined points to Avatars not having the twin powers.
Clue 3) The origin (Eye) while possessing MC, literally says that the place near where the MC's body awakens is a part of him and born of him.
Assumption 4) The origin is all the matter in the universe. Everything that can be described as matter is an extension of it's body.
Based on these clues and assumptions, it seems to me that the avatars do not have the twin traits themselves, rather a mutated combination of them (just like Oil is part Authority, part Body and part Darkness, but doesn't have the actual 3 original traits), but as with all biological things and taking into account the assumption that they are just the "monsters", birthed from the Apostles themselves, it's possible to pass on their genes. Their power is flawed and the actual traits are recessive, but thanks to MC's unique circumstances, having connection to the Origin, he manages to activate these recessive genes when he gets infected.
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I'm stopping here cause I feel like I'm overreaching again. While I'm trying to follow the clues and tie them to what I believe is the inspiration for the setting, the truth is that we don't have enough info for me to substantiate my theories to a point that I'm confident about them.
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- Jul 13, 2018
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There's a few errors here. Aglaecwif said she hasn't met anyone who's obtained the Order trait since the Origin. That's what she said during that scene, not a spawn that inherited two traits, if I remember right. From what I remember, she was talking about Jake during that scene.
As for the Avatars, they do indeed wield the full power of the Apostle. Their bodies can't withstand the power for that long though which leads to their Avatar's destruction. I believe we learned this in the library or it could've been with Aglaecwif. So that's a bit incorrect. They're not mutations or anything. They're avatars backed by their full strength.
When it comes to Aglaecwif, she says during your first encounter that she shares the same lord as the MC. If he has the 4th, she's more direct about. If you have the 3rd, she questions why there's another spawn of the 3rd which makes it iffy. She could be referring to Ella and is confused why there's another one. Or she could be referring to herself, since that would mean she, Ella, and MC would all be the 3rd's spawn. It's too vague for the 3rd but she's direct with the 4th so it's safe to say she's a descendant of the 4th Apostle. She seems to use the Memory trait on the MC during their encounter. As for the 3rd, it's a big question mark.
Now, I'll go into my own theory about the remaining Apostles(9-12) so that could maybe give you an idea.
9th is possibly Death, 10th is Destruction. Together they make Oblivion or nothingness. The reason I came to this conclusion is because their descendants all follow the 7th. Since his trait is Darkness, Death and Destruction wouldn't get in the way of his goal since they all would contribute to dissolution of the universe. Their concepts wouldn't hinder the 7th like Life or creation would and because of that, you get the stuff below.
11th is Life, 12 is Creation. Together they make Genesis. Since the duality is split up for Death and Destruction, Life and Creation would be together. As such, Genesis would be the combined trait. The beginning/birthing of the universe as a whole.
That what I'm working with currently on the theory side. As for the other stuff in your post, I don't really have an opinion one way or another since I'm all over the place myself. Too much stuff is going on in the background in this game to get any sort of consistency going for me.
- Jul 13, 2021
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Here is the dialogue, she mentioned Jake but she wasn't talking about him, she was answering the question about the greatest power:
As for the power of the avatars, the library mentions that their power is beyond anything that Xanthe has seen, but then again, that doesn't mean that the avatars are as strong as the Apostles. The scope of the powers may be way beyond any human can conceptualize, even someone as brilliant as Xanthe. I mean, if I'm right and the possessed MC is literal with what he says, it IS all of the matter in the universe. I don't think that Xanthe and the rest of the HERO have conceptualized these powers as gods (I mean Benhardt calls the Himavat a "god" but to me that's way too iffy). A simple comparison of an avatar corpse to an S ranked monster doesn't necessarily tell the whole story. It's possible that I missed something though.
But yea, my theory is needlessly complex and there are is not enough info to substantiate. It's based on.. ~10 lines of dialogue which are fairly cryptic to begin with.
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- Jul 13, 2018
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Yes, but she was referring to Order specifically not that she hasn't met any being at all that had both traits. That's the error you made in the post. She was only talking about not meeting anyone with the Order trait since the Origin.
Back to the Avatar thing, I'm pretty sure it said they could use their full power through it, at some point in game. That they're as powerful as they would be in person. They're wielding it all through it. The only draw back is the Avatar breaks down because it can't handle the power for long. That's what's stated in the game and it's likely not wrong since they found multiple corpses.
As for the beyond human comprehension stuff, it's most likely not that deep to the point that HERO and the others can't comprehend it. The MC already went to their plane of existence and was able to perceive the 1st in it's actual body. The Bernhardt thing wasn't serious, he was insulting the monster by calling it "god" because it isn't one. It's only that to the monsters weaker than itself.
I also doubt the Dev is going full personification/embodiment for the Apostles or even the Arbiters to a lesser extent. If the Origin MC was literally all of matter in the universe(he's not), why did he lose to Lexi controlling his own iron webbing body? Why did he lose to Deus's Time(and possibly Space) powers? He also wouldn't have been struggling to adapt to the Earth's surface since it would've been his own self. Hell, why did the universe still remain after Deus killed him? If he was the literal thing, majority of it would've ended along with him.
So for me, I don't really agree with that point. Though, you're free to do as you please. I don't believe the Apostles are their traits in the literal sense. The Arbiters at full power might semi be like that but I don't believe the Apostles are like that at all.
- Jul 13, 2021
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Since the overall discussion is way too theoritical, I will only respond to this snippet and leave the rest for the later updates.
Yes if we take the argument at face value, she talks about Order alone, but a few things she says can be generalized.
This is the full quote
The main points of what she says are these:
1) The combination of the powers of 1st and 2nd is called Order.
2) Aglaecwif believes that Order is the strongest possible power.
3) She hasn't seen anyone wield it since the Origin
4) She doesn't know if it's possible to happen.
For this discussion, the most interesting bit is 4, which can be generalized. She talks about possibility which is something fundamental and doesn't factor in possible circumstances, otherwise she would talk about probability.
I think these two assumptions are fair:
1) She has met at least one of the apostles/avatars. She is the descendant of one and she is ancient.
2) The various apostle powers are fundamentally similar in the sense that everything that applies to Authority and Power, also applies to Body, Memory, Space and the other powers. The effects/domains are different, but if Body and Memory can be combined, so can Authority and Power.
With these assumptions, her not knowing that it's possible for someone to inherit Authority + Power means that she has never met anyone who has inherited both traits at all. Otherwise she would know that it's possible.
Of course it's possible that she didn't know that the Avatars have both powers, or that both my assumptions are outright wrong and just because MC managed to do it with Body and Memory, doesn't necessarily mean that it's also possible for Authority and Power.
Yeah I feel like we're underestimating the folks at HERO. Even after we "surpassed" level 5 with the Arbiter, Lexi fought fairly well against us and we got our ass handed to us be Deus who isn't even a level 5.
I'd imagine Malik, Bernhardt, and Henri are stronger than him. It kinda felt a little anti climatic tbh. If we lost as the arbiter, would the fully manifested apostles fair any better against the level 5?
I'd imagine Malik, Bernhardt, and Henri are stronger than him. It kinda felt a little anti climatic tbh. If we lost as the arbiter, would the fully manifested apostles fair any better against the level 5?
- Dec 3, 2018
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I also feel like we are underestimating the Arbiter as well since from what I can gather it wasn't even at full strength or even close to it going by these:
While its quite certain we still 'surpassed' level 5, Arbiter was just born and is incomplete who knows how damn strong Arbiter actually is...that thought is quite scary.
I also wonder what if MC was level 5 prior to allowing Arbiter to be born would "Imperfect Arbiter" be even stronger despite still not having all his power he must reclaim?
He does express if the MC says no to him being born that he should be patient so perhaps allowing the MC to 'mature' more might be in his best interest (which is why I think the higher the level MC is the better for Arbiter).
Anywho, going by the second image the Arbiter was looking for whatever he needed to reclaim (I suppose to gain the rest of his power) which makes me excited to see how things will pan out in the future when the MC is 'ready'
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- Jul 13, 2018
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Felt the same way. I do think a fully powered Arbiter would annihilate everything but the Origin MC was a bit meh. If Bernhardt and Henri joined the party with Malik, he might've still lost. Especially with Nyx, Deus, and Nico lurking in the back drop.
I wouldn't say anyone's underestimating the Origin MC. It was just that he boasted power beyond the 5th level, which should mean he's vastly superior to Level 5, from stats alone. Yet, he didn't want to fight Malik until after he got what he was looking for. He couldn't damage Lexi and got his own body manipulated by her powers. He had to smack her outside of the space because he couldn't kill her. He later got the same treatment by Nico when she tossed him into space. Then there's that ending with Deus, which was the most damning of them all.
Now, I do agree with the sentiment that Origin MC was basically Level 2 MC but with the power of someone beyond Level 5. His powers weren't really any different minus syncing his body to a higher plane for his regeneration and making a diamond sword that was the weight of a mountain. Something he didn't get to use because Deus kept trolling him and destroying it, which is hilarious when you think about it. His Memory Trait also wasn't as advanced as Level 3 MC, let alone near Memory Mommy's.
That's why I wasn't really impressed by the Origin MC, personally. While he was powerful, his use of his powers were lackluster. I actually hope the MC is way more advanced with his Memory Trait when he reaches level 5. The indestructible perk for linking to a higher plane was nice though and I can see level 5 MC getting it as well(which shouldn't be surprising since that was one of my theorized powers for the MC from months ago).
So while I get that he was imperfect, he wasn't really all that special for having that much power at hand. Don't get me wrong though, he definitely would've destroyed them if he was able to get what he was looking for. It would've probably required all of the Level 5s together to stop him at that point. If he found another piece after that, then that would be it for them all.
- Aug 21, 2018
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Got new meme so it was a good day yeah lvl5 MC fights with the tactics of lvl 2 MC so yeah it was a let down but the bitch slap to lexi was funny that's what you get for calling us a manwhore you sexy bitch.
- Aug 30, 2019
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I feel like we have to take into account that Level 5 is just a loose category for Superhuman strength. It obviously varies EXPONENTIALLY from person to person. I know some ppl like to huff the cope that age doesn't matter but it does, the older you are with the Level chances you've been training it up longer than a newbie Level 5.
So in regards to the Origin MC I still think the strength was CRAZY not disappointing. First off the Origin was incomplete, it needed it's hearts or whatever to complete itself, so while it does say the body is beyond Level 5, it's probably true even without them because Level 5 as a whole is not ONE level of average strength; it varies.
Just look at Alexis, I don't know who was coping that she actually stood up to the Origin but she didn't...she struck back from a trap sure, but then the Origin literally ONE TAPPED her out of this corporeal dimension. I think he was weary of Malik because
A. He's not your "average" Level 5, he's had his abilities at that Level for at most 50 somethin years.
B. His ability is particularly nasty towards his own.
Going off of Nicolette she kinda just teleported him into space, what would normally stop most Superhumans I feel like, it walked off like it was just another Tuesday by branch BIG ASS tentacles and coming down like a fucking meteor. Hard to say if the sun technique would work as it didn't even work on Ella but who knows, so far the Origin brushed off everyone MINUS Malik, and he wasn't even at full strength.
Battle wise, he was clapping A Class and S Classes SIMULTANEOUSLY like they were nothing. Traveling at ridiculous speeds and what have you. For a newborn beyond Level 5, I can only IMAGINE what you're doing at full strength.
Deus doesn't really count causes he's a Machina. He'd arguably clap anyone imo, he's kinda like the secret bosses they'd hide in Final Fantasy where it wasn't even possible to beat them, they were just there to fuck you over if you ever encountered them.
So in regards to the Origin MC I still think the strength was CRAZY not disappointing. First off the Origin was incomplete, it needed it's hearts or whatever to complete itself, so while it does say the body is beyond Level 5, it's probably true even without them because Level 5 as a whole is not ONE level of average strength; it varies.
Just look at Alexis, I don't know who was coping that she actually stood up to the Origin but she didn't...she struck back from a trap sure, but then the Origin literally ONE TAPPED her out of this corporeal dimension. I think he was weary of Malik because
A. He's not your "average" Level 5, he's had his abilities at that Level for at most 50 somethin years.
B. His ability is particularly nasty towards his own.
Going off of Nicolette she kinda just teleported him into space, what would normally stop most Superhumans I feel like, it walked off like it was just another Tuesday by branch BIG ASS tentacles and coming down like a fucking meteor. Hard to say if the sun technique would work as it didn't even work on Ella but who knows, so far the Origin brushed off everyone MINUS Malik, and he wasn't even at full strength.
Battle wise, he was clapping A Class and S Classes SIMULTANEOUSLY like they were nothing. Traveling at ridiculous speeds and what have you. For a newborn beyond Level 5, I can only IMAGINE what you're doing at full strength.
Deus doesn't really count causes he's a Machina. He'd arguably clap anyone imo, he's kinda like the secret bosses they'd hide in Final Fantasy where it wasn't even possible to beat them, they were just there to fuck you over if you ever encountered them.
- Jul 13, 2021
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Hmm, combat analysis is always fun:
Possessed MC vs Deus:
Well, Deus used hacks in this fight so I can't take it seriously. Unless he can replicate his "connection-severing" ability under any circumstance, this fight isn't worth talking about. His defense was good, but once MC increased his volume, he fled to find "another point". The attack he showcases, while having some smart applications, isn't very strong against the MC.
Possessed MC vs Alexis:
Despite the Eye being super dumb and not recognizing Alexis power even when witnessing it, Alexis managed to stand up to him for a few seconds and could survive the big punch. But that's all there is to say about her. There is no actual way she can contribute in this fight. She can't win the attrition war. In a team fight against MC, the best she can do is absorb some hits meant for others.
Possessed MC vs Nico:
This matchup is also pointless. Nico (blessed with Clark's light) could hardly deal with Ella. In fact Ella willingly took massive damage in order to spring 2 pitiful traps, and Nico barely survived them. Possessed MC's mass creation is way more absurd than whatever Ella has shown till now. So I think that Nico has absolutely no chance against MC. In a team fight, the best she can do is to teleport her allies out of harms way, because her offensive actions are prone to friendly fire.
Possessed MC vs Nyx:
This depends on how exactly Nyx's powers work. If it's a power contest (Like Jake's commands and Ella's transmutation), I don't think that she can match the possessed MC. If it works differently and she can apply her power without problem, then she is HERO's best chance. In a team fight, assuming that her powers work on a contest, she can play medic and if the team manages to deplete MC's power, she can finish him off.
Possessed MC vs Malik:
Probably the most interesting match up. Technically Malik has an advantage here, but in practice, MC can create so much mass that he can play around Malik's powers. The effect of Malik's attacks seem to have an inverse relation to the area. Basically his wide attacks are just not good enough to completely disintegrate MC (if his attack on Goliath is of any indication), while his narrow attacks don't hit enough mass to be worthwhile. To beat the MC, he would have to catch him in human form and use a narrow attack to completely disintegrate him. If MC increases his volume/area then Malik doesn't have very good answers. Additionally Malik failing to disintegrate Goliath also means that a big enough blunt instrument will survive contact with his protective flames and damage him. Lastly Malik is a caster, so I doubt that he can take too much damage.
Vs other hero members:
We don't know much about Lisa or Lucious to know if their abilities are good match.
Henri's attacks seem to be mental and traditionally MC needs to prepare against them but the Eye is too dumb to do stuff like that.
Bernhard's powers could potentially be a good match if he can use them to restrict MC's flight and limit his capacity to increase his volume. If he can make a cage with those barriers of his he would be really good in a team fight.
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Possessed MC vs Deus:
Well, Deus used hacks in this fight so I can't take it seriously. Unless he can replicate his "connection-severing" ability under any circumstance, this fight isn't worth talking about. His defense was good, but once MC increased his volume, he fled to find "another point". The attack he showcases, while having some smart applications, isn't very strong against the MC.
Possessed MC vs Alexis:
Despite the Eye being super dumb and not recognizing Alexis power even when witnessing it, Alexis managed to stand up to him for a few seconds and could survive the big punch. But that's all there is to say about her. There is no actual way she can contribute in this fight. She can't win the attrition war. In a team fight against MC, the best she can do is absorb some hits meant for others.
Possessed MC vs Nico:
This matchup is also pointless. Nico (blessed with Clark's light) could hardly deal with Ella. In fact Ella willingly took massive damage in order to spring 2 pitiful traps, and Nico barely survived them. Possessed MC's mass creation is way more absurd than whatever Ella has shown till now. So I think that Nico has absolutely no chance against MC. In a team fight, the best she can do is to teleport her allies out of harms way, because her offensive actions are prone to friendly fire.
Possessed MC vs Nyx:
This depends on how exactly Nyx's powers work. If it's a power contest (Like Jake's commands and Ella's transmutation), I don't think that she can match the possessed MC. If it works differently and she can apply her power without problem, then she is HERO's best chance. In a team fight, assuming that her powers work on a contest, she can play medic and if the team manages to deplete MC's power, she can finish him off.
Possessed MC vs Malik:
Probably the most interesting match up. Technically Malik has an advantage here, but in practice, MC can create so much mass that he can play around Malik's powers. The effect of Malik's attacks seem to have an inverse relation to the area. Basically his wide attacks are just not good enough to completely disintegrate MC (if his attack on Goliath is of any indication), while his narrow attacks don't hit enough mass to be worthwhile. To beat the MC, he would have to catch him in human form and use a narrow attack to completely disintegrate him. If MC increases his volume/area then Malik doesn't have very good answers. Additionally Malik failing to disintegrate Goliath also means that a big enough blunt instrument will survive contact with his protective flames and damage him. Lastly Malik is a caster, so I doubt that he can take too much damage.
Vs other hero members:
We don't know much about Lisa or Lucious to know if their abilities are good match.
Henri's attacks seem to be mental and traditionally MC needs to prepare against them but the Eye is too dumb to do stuff like that.
Bernhard's powers could potentially be a good match if he can use them to restrict MC's flight and limit his capacity to increase his volume. If he can make a cage with those barriers of his he would be really good in a team fight.
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- Aug 30, 2019
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Yeah Alexis and Nicolette are out of the picture so far in a contest against the incomplete Origin, no doubt about that. I'd wager Clark probably also falls into this category as he admits being one of the weaker Level 5's anyway, and if Nicolette is the strongest of the bunch I just mentioned; Clark ain't cuttin it.
Malik is like you were saying, although it should be noted; it almost seemed like the MC's tentacles were about the size of Goliath if not bigger, ESPECIALLY when he pulls himself back into orbit. So if Malik (albeit minimally trying) had to use a use ass nuclear fire pillar to finish Goliath off from a incapacitated perspective (he didn't kill him), then wouldn't Malik have to do that for each gigantic ass tentacle simultaneously? It's like you were saying the MC had too much mass at that point for Malik to be gnawing through all that but who knows.
Bernhardt is kinda speculative too cause while wind may not seem SUPER op against all that mass, it's noted that Bernhardt was the leader of M-Division, NOT Malik. We honestly just don't have enough information on that front.
So then Nyx yeah? Mmm she's a bit of an odd ball. I have no doubt she's probably the strongest right under Malik. Hendrik could be there too but Nyx's ability of literal fucking Death is just too much to gloss over. ESPECIALLY considering using it against a shapeshifter. I had this thought back to what Valravn mentioned during his fight; and it was that it is discouraging to see yourself break down piece by piece while your enemy remains just as they were when the fight started. That principal may not apply to Nyx, one wrong move and whatever ability she places on you might just make a cut off limb fatal, or a pierced heart lethal. But alas, whether that acts as a support or an actual stand on your two toes and fight ability is up for debate, we'll have to see later on.
I honestly doubt Lucius could stand a threat, I could be totally wrong. I just don't see how doppelgangers could support against something that breathes slaughter and flesh. You'd be SUPPLYING the Origin in a fight if he managed to kill some. But if Lucius's ability works like I kinda fear it does, where each duplicate has the durability of a Level 5 and just gradually gets worse the more he puts out, that may be a bigger chance. Alas though I still think the Origin takes the cake after seeing how he manhandled Alexis's Level 5 body.
- Jul 13, 2021
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Assuming that his clones remain at full power, an army of level 5 bodies can be a very tough foe under circumstances. But without flight or some ranged attack he can't really engage at any meaningful capacity and those clones who do would require support, like Nico dropping them on top of MC.
If however Hero have ranged weapons capable of hurting the MC or Lucius himself has some kind of ranged attack, he could be huge trouble. And perhaps controlling numerous ranged attackers is easier than melee ones so he can comfortably make more than usual.
Lucius doesn't just clone himself. He clones his equipment too. So it's a matter of technology. If he could clone himself enough to reach a critical mass that nothing the MC makes can survive long enough to reach him he could be the perfect counter, although other limitations like ammo could ruin his day. He still would need some support, for example against an underground tentacle.
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