desmosome

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 5, 2018
6,133
14,152
Here is another unsolicited tip for newbies.

The concept of diminishing returns for damage boosts and exponential return for "cuts."

Diminishing returns are probably self explanatory. For boosting effects like lets say, Lethal Critical, the more of it you have, the less relative gains you will have by getting more of it. Let's simplify it and say that Lethal Crit just boosts damage by that percentage. 100 Lethal Crit would mean double damage. But if we add another 100 on top of it, that second 100 turns the total damage from 2x to 3x. That's a 1.5x increase in damage from the previous number, which means the same 100 lethal crit was only half as effective when you already had 100.

Now let's look at "cuts." These include Hardy Physique (90 max), Counter Resist (90 max), Helmet Split (80 max), Dimension Slash (75 max), and the various Barriers (can get immunity with 100 from a single unit). Let's say we have 50 Hardy Physique.. That means you take 0.5x damage. Now let's add another 40 Hardy Physique on top of that to max it out. Now you are taking 0.1x damage. That 40 Hardy Physique was 5 times(!) as effective as the first 50.

Here is the basic damage formula.
( (2*Attack+5) * sqrt(AttackersHP)) / (defense + 5 + sqrt(Land)).

Basically, whatever damage the attack did would be divided by the defense. Let's take a simplified example. Ignoring Land (aka Wall) for now, if you attacked with 1000 damage and they have 100 defense, you would do 10 damage. Now if we use 50 Helmet Split, their defense would be 50, which means we would do 20 damage. Now if we add another 30 Helmet Split, their defense would be 20, which means we do 50 damage. The first 50 Helmet Split was a damage increase of 2x. The second 30 Helmet Split was a relative increase of 2.5x from the initial 50 Helmet Split.

Slayer Defense is too complicated for me to really grasp in mathematical terms. It's basically negating a damage multiplier (that can become pretty massive), so it's certainly extremely important for units that will get hit.

Anyways, so what does this all mean?

It means you don't want to overstack on just one type of "damage boost," Like Additional Attack, Lethal Crit, and Max-Powered Attacks. For the cuts like Dimension Slash and Helmet split, you do want to try and get it as high as possible. Still, it does become ideal to have some of everything because difference sources of increasing damage will stack multiplicatively. However, Max-Powered attack is dangerous on units that doesn't have extremely high counter mitigation or Dimension Slash (or at least range attack). Also remember, that having any Lethal Crit will give a 25% defense cut on crits that stacks multiplicatively to other sources (unless negated by Fatal Resist I guess).

For defenders, the consideration is pretty simple. The goal for a traditional tank is to reach 100 slayer defense and 90 Hardy Physique. Godly and Hardy do not stack and only considers the highest value. Obviously, they want Defense Only and either forward guard or target miss decoy.
 
May 12, 2021
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Saves should be located in documents/dualtail - so check there if there some kind of writing protection
In the documents/dualtail I have the saves from older games as well. Never had any issue.

I even checked if the files were read only but they are not. Ran the game with admin privileges as well.


Okay so it turned out to be the classic issue of my antivirus blocking the application from overwriting saves !!!

Thanks a lot for the tips though.

People who are facing a similar issue should either add an exception to the antivirus or stop it while playing the game.
 
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Metal Slime

New Member
Aug 16, 2019
8
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In the documents/dualtail I have the saves from older games as well. Never had any issue.

I even checked if the files were read only but they are not. Ran the game with admin privileges as well.


Okay so it turned out to be the classic issue of my antivirus blocking the application from overwriting saves !!!

Thanks a lot for the tips though.

People who are facing a similar issue should either add an exception to the antivirus or stop it while playing the game.
Thank you. Adding the exception to my anti-virus fixed it.
 

wyldstrykr

Active Member
Nov 30, 2017
668
305
egg birth are not reset in new game plus (if lala has birth 3 times), if you start a new game plus, she still birthed 3 times using 3 spaces in birth tab. good thing event regarding birth reflect that too.

also the pool of units you get by using the key is dependent on what kinds of arcana you have, if you have a lot of different arcanas, the pool of units you can get is a lot

i tested this because i cant recruit units using a key and couldnt get more until next chapter

EDIT: apparently lvl 150 is maX for S-growth units and ill assume its -10 the lower the rarity up to lvl90 for F-growth unit?
 
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hilih--

Newbie
May 22, 2019
74
168
UI mod updated to
Changelog:
- Birth Screen: added sorting of units by cost, ability to hire, star
- Birth Screen: added unit filter by happiness
- Birth Screen: added unit filter to show units unlocked by Arcana card
- Birth Screen: filter "Unhired" can be enabled by default with "birth.unhired_enabled = on" in ui-mode.ini
- Formation and Tactics Screens: added division skills tooltip
- Formation and Tactics Screens: now filters Common and Commander can be active at the same time
- Formation Screen: added Undeployed filter
- Items Screen: added units filter by selected items category
- Items Screen: added items drag&drop to the units list
- Screens: screen transition speed can be changed with "transition_speed" in ui-mode.ini
 

DuniX

Well-Known Member
Dec 20, 2016
1,178
778
egg birth are not reset in new game plus (if lala has birth 3 times), if you start a new game plus, she still birthed 3 times using 3 spaces in birth tab. good thing event regarding birth reflect that too.
That's a bummer since I wanted to use more units even if they are less powerful or useful.
Maybe a strategy is to get low growth rate units from keys and use them without titles.
also the pool of units you get by using the key is dependent on what kinds of arcana you have, if you have a lot of different arcanas, the pool of units you can get is a lot

i tested this because i cant recruit units using a key and couldnt get more until next chapter
I am not sure about that as you can get some pretty powerful units early with x4 keys that you normally wouldn't have access.
rarity up to lvl90 for F-growth unit?
Don't think there is a F rank, E is probably lowest.
 

wyldstrykr

Active Member
Nov 30, 2017
668
305
I am not sure about that as you can get some pretty powerful units early with x4 keys that you normally wouldn't have access.
Don't think there is a F rank, E is probably lowest.
well i didnt say about how powerful the unit is... what im saying is the number of unit that can be pulled by using key (and probably multiplle key, didnt test since i dont have keys) is dependent on how many different types arcanas you unlocked.

so E is the lowest...
 

hilih--

Newbie
May 22, 2019
74
168
What does star do?
It is the most important parameter for unit happiness (in 0..4): +3 if hired under the same star, -3 if opposite star.
To plan unit hires on the next turns.

In the screenshot star is water and Scylla also has a water star.
(It was called a moon in Frontier and a month in Hollow).
1692167441685.png
 

DuniX

Well-Known Member
Dec 20, 2016
1,178
778
It is the most important parameter for unit happiness (in 0..4): +3 if hired under the same star, -3 if opposite star.
To plan unit hires on the next turns.

In the screenshot star is water and Scylla also has a water star.
(It was called a moon in Frontier and a month in Hollow).
View attachment 2854887
Oh cool, so that would make them independent of mothers.
 

kidsadrzsd

Newbie
Jul 25, 2019
37
4
for anyone using destiny key , you should focus on guest unit(unit can only unlock by using key),also know about your
visitor+distortion , if this combine less than 20,you can only summond visitor from x10 key(i remember highest x10 unit you can get is evil goddess freya) ,for using x20 key your combine need more than 20
 

kidlat020

Active Member
Jul 5, 2017
568
420
- Formation and Tactics Screens: added division skills tooltip
finally now I see some of my squads have 130+ treasure hunt but others are just 20. now i have to rearrange everyone yet again. sigh.

if I send 3 squads each of them having 130 treasure hunt on a surface battle for example, do I get 390 treasure in total or still just 130? if no then maybe i should just camp them in the goddess room

here's my first floor layout. the idea is to keep the enemies outside of the first 3 squares.

1692174227469.png
 
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kidsadrzsd

Newbie
Jul 25, 2019
37
4
finally now I see some of my squads have 130+ treasure hunt but others are just 20. now i have to rearrange everyone yet again. sigh.

if I send 3 squads each of them having 130 treasure hunt on a surface battle for example, do I get 390 treasure in total or still just 130? if no then maybe i should just camp them in the goddess room

here's my first floor layout. the idea is to keep the enemies outside of the first 3 squares.

View attachment 2854999
only the highest value apply.
 
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DuniX

Well-Known Member
Dec 20, 2016
1,178
778
if I send 3 squads each of them having 130 treasure hunt on a surface battle for example, do I get 390 treasure in total or still just 130? if no then maybe i should just camp them in the goddess room
Highest division only counts so stack as much as you can on one that you hit high value targets(treatment cost) while you use the rest to farm Arcana and Ores.
 

desmosome

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 5, 2018
6,133
14,152
Untitled.png

This is my usual set up. Replace Command Rooms with anything else after your resource per turns get higher to support your deployment.

I tried using Goddess Rooms, but I can never get good results from it. My deployed units won't ever have enough treasure hunt to make use of it. If they did get enough treasure hunt, they won't be able to one shot kill the enemies anyways.

If I use my main treasure hunt team to attack a half dead unit on a Goddess Room, the results are very poor anyways. I am not 100% sure, but I believe the enemies' current HP matters for treasure hunt rewards. At least it seems that way from experience. You get pretty much nothing from killing a division with all 1 HP.

That's why I just placed Mines. It's not much, but they have a few Bounty Hunter 7 and 8 in there.

I used this on my 2nd playthrough jumping from Normal to Very Hard. On my first run, I did the camp 9 units in the entrance strategy as well. That is very risky in higher difficulties.
 

kidsadrzsd

Newbie
Jul 25, 2019
37
4
View attachment 2855047

This is my usual set up. Replace Command Rooms with anything else after your resource per turns get higher to support your deployment.

I tried using Goddess Rooms, but I can never get good results from it. My deployed units won't ever have enough treasure hunt to make use of it. If they did get enough treasure hunt, they won't be able to one shot kill the enemies anyways.

If I use my main treasure hunt team to attack a half dead unit on a Goddess Room, the results are very poor anyways. I am not 100% sure, but I believe the enemies' current HP matters for treasure hunt rewards. At least it seems that way from experience. You get pretty much nothing from killing a division with all 1 HP.

That's why I just placed Mines. It's not much, but they have a few Bounty Hunter 7 and 8 in there.

I used this on my 2nd playthrough jumping from Normal to Very Hard. On my first run, I did the camp 9 units in the entrance strategy as well. That is very risky in higher difficulties.
to use treasure hunt team, you should focus on attack enemies low hp on goddess space, use 2 squad to attack.
1 hp division still division, it just rng,just reload it to use treasure hunt team and focus on boss squad they will likely drop higher tier weapon.
but yeah, i learn some thing from your set up floor 1
 
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desmosome

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 5, 2018
6,133
14,152
I imagine on Despair berserk difficulty, you will have to sacrifice the first floor with nothing but jails/insect/dummy/traps to stall the initial waves, with 3 units guarding the exit. The rest of the units will set up the actual defense on the next floor. Just my theory at this point because I haven't actually done that difficulty yet.
 

kidsadrzsd

Newbie
Jul 25, 2019
37
4
1692178095071.png
my set up to farm weapon on hard-ber 2 mode, mary which i build with aqua unit is treasure hunt team, often drop tier 8 weapon and highest can drop tier 10.
 

kidlat020

Active Member
Jul 5, 2017
568
420
now that I think about it, the labyrinth layout is just shit. if I were to build a labyrinth I'd make sure they were zigzagging as much as they would.

inb4 but they could just break the wall then!

1. that's assuming the enemy doesn't know the labyrinth layout and
2. what if they're traps? they don't know that.

also, passages? really?

btw, how do you guys get more than 320 treasure hunt in one division? is it from the heroes? 160 I can still get though.
 
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