VN Ren'Py WVM [S2 Ch. 1 Ep. 13 B3] [Braindrop]

[grim019]

There isn't a house burning down. He's got over 3,000 paying subs

Just because people pay for something does not mean that thing is not a mess.

 

[Goopgoop]

this thread like milfy city thread will not be moderated like other threads on the site. (General moderation still applies)

We moderate the threads and remove things not related to the game (aka abt dev time and dev themselves) but this dev dug his own hole and there is literally nothing to talk about here than what an absolute joke it has become. So rather than deleting 90% of the thread we have decided not to moderate it as others, coz there is not actual content for users to discuss.

The staff have have thier decision months ago, and thier word is final.

P.S: if anyone has a problem with that then there is always the off-topic section for you guys to bitch about us while downloading free shit that we put effort into maintaining

This hadn't posted when I was typing my previous comment. How do I unsubscribe from this thread? Might as well stick to the front page if that's the call from upstairs.

A separate topic for people who enjoy the game won't help because the hate-train will just do the same there until it becomes unmoderated too. If that's that then I guess that's that.

On a final note, thanks for maintaining F95 zone's functionality. Even though I've learned my lesson about talking about the games I like on here because mob mentality rules, I very much enjoy the easy central location to check for game updates. If not for F95 I'd have to check on a couple crawler sites every time and that's just a bother to scroll through.

 

[Norman Knight]

There isn't a house burning down. He's got over 3,000 paying subs. And plenty of freemium enjoyers. You say nobody here is salty, and heck, that might be true for you personally (though I'd beg to differ from how you're talking about it). But you definitely can't say it about everyone.

I'm not undermining anything. I'm trying to create a more pleasant environment for everyone who does like the game by reminding the moderator that insulting people over their opinion is against forum rules. Yet here you, a mod, are calling me a brown-noser for ... not caring that an amateur developer is an amateur.

There are no victims. Paying into a crowd-funded project always runs the risk of deciding on reflection that it wasn't worth the money. Buyer's Remorse laws even in the EU are like 14 days. Crowd-funding is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're going to get.

You also can't excuse excessive discussion of development by saying the Patreon posts are updates about development. That's what Patreon is for. This forum post is supposedly to discuss the game itself, as per the rules. So all the users who do nothing but complain about the development ARE being off-topic and ARE excessively discussing development.

You can say "it was already discussed". But that's completely besides the point. Discussing that is what the thread is for. And what, once SOMEONE has discussed it there shouldn't be room or common decensy for anyone else who wants to discuss it? "Make way for the hate-train! Choo-choo!".

As a mod, isn't your job to enforce the rules? So why are you lawyering for the people you're supposed to moderate? Doesn't seem like impartial arbitration of the rules when you yourself are defending the people who clearly aren't using the thread for its intended purpose and telling people who WANT to use it for its intended purpose but can't without getting "catharsised on" to create a separate thread. They're the ones breaking the rules. Let them create a separate thread where they can all huddle up around the supposed house fire and bake salty smores together.

 

[SonsOfLiberty]

This hadn't posted when I was typing my previous comment. How do I unsubscribe from this thread? Might as well stick to the front page if that's the call from upstairs.

I watched the thread to show you, look at the arrows, click it. You can also do that to "watch threads" without actually commenting on them...




If you reply again to this thread (or any you unwatch), it will automatically watch it again, and you will have to unwatch it again.

 

[preglovr12]

There isn't a house burning down. He's got over 3,000 paying subs. And plenty of freemium enjoyers. You say nobody here is salty, and heck, that might be true for you personally (though I'd beg to differ from how you're talking about it). But you definitely can't say it about everyone.

You're putting emotions into people's text, not everyone that comments on a game thread gives a flying fuck about said game.

I'm not undermining anything. I'm trying to create a more pleasant environment for everyone who does like the game by reminding the moderator that insulting people over their opinion is against forum rules. Yet here you, a mod, are calling me a brown-noser for ... not caring that an amateur developer is an amateur.

Where did I call you a brownnoser? You said yourself you dont think BD's doing a good job, so clearly youre not a brownnoser.

You also can't excuse excessive discussion of development by saying the Patreon posts are updates about development. That's what Patreon is for. This forum post is supposedly to discuss the game itself, as per the rules. So all the users who do nothing but complain about the development ARE being off-topic and ARE excessively discussing development.

That's your opinion, I disagree, that's fine. I moderate as I see fit, clearly that's not enough for you.

As a mod, isn't your job to enforce the rules? So why are you lawyering for the people you're supposed to moderate? Doesn't seem like impartial arbitration of the rules when you yourself are defending the people who clearly aren't using the thread for its intended purpose and telling people who WANT to use it for its intended purpose but can't without getting "catharsised on" to create a separate thread. They're the ones breaking the rules. Let them create a separate thread where they can all huddle up around the supposed house fire and bake salty smores together.

What rules are they breaking? And you seem to think that people would actually discuss anything here if they "werent run off by the hate train" despite the fact that theres still multiple posters here in the thread that discuss the game... My money would be on this game getting three posts a month, Hell, I've been the one posting the dev updates recently, one was around 20 hours late as well. As I've said multiple times now, people. just. dont. care.

 

[Thamn]

And my point was about time and effort. The full game has been in the making for about 4,5 years. In that time he made ~9000 renders, coming to about 2000 renders per year. In that context, you're basically saying the dev can't "release a big update" unless he switches to a yearly update schedule. Which would have EVERYONE flipping their lids even harder than the haters are flipping now.

What are you basing this 2000 lower limit on anyway? Which devs release updates that big, and at the quality of WVM?

Your numbers are way off, you can unpack the game and check. There's 17555 renders and 400 animations in the current version (S2-C1-E13-B3). Of those, 9829 renders and 180 animations belong to Season 1 from 2021. Season 2 currently has 7726 renders and 220 animations. The ~9000 you mention is what BD reports as the current content of the full update (days 32-38 aka Season 2), meaning he should have ~1300 renders that we don't yet.

So he released ~5000 renders per year in the first 2 years, and has released ~3000 per year since. It's a big reduction but still a good average, there's a reason he has so many supporters.

As for why the "haters" are "flipping their lids", S2-C1-E13 was announced as a single big update set for October 2023 and was instead split into chunks which are not yet fully released. BD has been doing this kind of thing for 3+ years. The "hate" isn't about the quantity, it's about the lies. All BD had to do was report progress and release when ready, people didn't create expectations out of thin air, they were set by BD himself and eventually during the last 3 years the excuses became the content and once in a while we get the game as well.

 

[Goopgoop]

I watched the thread to show you, look at the arrows, click it. You can also do that to "watch threads" without actually commenting on them...

View attachment 3595081


If you reply again to this thread (or any you unwatch), it will automatically watch it again, and you will have to unwatch it again.

Thank you kindly ^_^

 

[K.T.L.]

Ok. Sod this. I'm doing the 'announcing that I'm leaving thing' and unwatching this silly thread. I've never seen so much pointless crap posted in one thread before. Get a grip people!

 

[RegAdd]

I just don't see any point in all that negativity.
...
I figured I'd sprinkle some emotional maturity around. It's a genuine attempt to help them cope, really. But they're free to take it or leave it.

Oh, the irony.

"Everyone else is so negative. However, I am an emotionally mature person, unlike them. If they don't accept that, they remain the negative presence."

Dude, no. Your self-righteousness is pretty much both passive aggressive and directly aggressive virtue signaling in favor of the dev. You're not spreading emotional maturity, you're taunting people as much as you're claiming you aren't.

"I am not touching you!" while holding your finger an inch from someone's neck.

 

[ShatteredEnigma616]

Is this the line to crap on BD for their lies and fake excuses?

 

[Goopgoop]

Your numbers are way off, you can unpack the game and check. There's 17555 renders and 400 animations in the current version (S2-C1-E13-B3). Of those, 9829 renders and 180 animations belong to Season 1 from 2021. Season 2 currently has 7726 renders and 220 animations. The ~9000 you mention is what BD reports as the current content of the full update (days 32-38 aka Season 2), meaning he should have ~1300 renders that we don't yet.

So he released ~5000 renders per year in the first 2 years, and has released ~3000 per year since. It's a big reduction but still a good average, there's a reason he has so many supporters.

As for why the "haters" are "flipping their lids", S2-C1-E13 was announced as a single big update set for October 2023 and was instead split into chunks which are not yet fully released. BD has been doing this kind of thing for 3+ years. The "hate" isn't about the quantity, it's about the lies. All BD had to do was report progress and release when ready, people didn't create expectations out of thin air, they were set by BD himself and eventually during the last 3 years the excuses became the content and once in a while we get the game as well.

Aight, so it's an even bigger game. All the more reason not to underestimate how much work that really is.

Yep. 3000 a year is a good average given the quality. I prefer that over games that rush releases where the release quality is significantly lower. In any kind of software project, there's always going to be a trade-off between speed, quantity and quality. This is the mix you get with BD.

As for expectations, I think we just fundamentally disagree about how to control our own, or how to respond to things we don't like. BD is an OCD dev with bad planning and communication skills (not really an uncommon combination when it comes to software engineers and animators). That was made apparently pretty early on. He can make any kind of prediction he wants and I'll take it with a saltshaker. You call it lies, I call it a guy continuously overestimating how fast things will get done to a level he's okay with. Either way it's a subjective judgement and the reality is probably a bit of both.

What it boils down to is that if his predictions are sh*t but his output is still a good average, then there isn't a real problem. It's like complaining that a bus driver isn't driving 130 kph because the bus has been delayed. I'm the kind of guy to just look out the window and enjoy the ride. I can't really relate to seeing excuses as content.

 

[SerHawkes]

Spoiler: The "Average" Look of the typical BD apologist

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Lets be real here. Some people are gonna be new and not really know the full story behind things, specially when Dictator BD has his discord and pateron clear up all the chat and such about his own bullshit. So sure, I'm semi willing to make a small pass on the uneducated. That said, if your trying to blindly defend the guy for his own bullshit excuses and mismanaging/milking the fuck out of this game... Your a special kind of moron in my book. Not sorry for say that.

 

[shamtiiomi]

What do you mean by "all this time"? He's not an hour-wage worker. His Patreon subscribers aren't his bosses. They're buying a product. They're paying for early access to new releases. Calling my assumption flawed and then making a pessimistic assumption yourself doesn't really help your case when you're trying to call my "logic" flawed.

I didn't make any assumptions about how many hours he spent on it each day. All I know is what that document says about the development stage of the update. You don't test until content is finished. Testing is for the purpose of quality control. I like that the content is finished, I like that they're filtering out typos and other mistakes. I also like that it's going to be a relatively large update of (at least) 750 renders.

I'm bubbling with anticipation. You're biting your nails impatiently. That's the difference between our mindsets and no criticism of my rationales is going to change that.

dude chill you are a newbie and dont know shit about the dude himself,bd is a lier and thats it ,if he says he goes to test the shit out of the update ,i will belive 1% of hat,and i know he will do that and is ok bcs i dont paying anymore of that shit,if he wanna conitnue liyng to his subs is not my problem ,and also no my problem if you are one fo them and come her to falselly acuse toher and stir shit up,we dont need cultmasters her and we dont need cult mindsuckers either.....

 

[Goopgoop]

Oh, the irony.

"Everyone else is so negative. However, I am an emotionally mature person, unlike them. If they don't accept that, they remain the negative presence."

Dude, no. Your self-righteousness is pretty much both passive aggressive and directly aggressive virtue signaling in favor of the dev. You're not spreading emotional maturity, you're taunting people as much as you're claiming you aren't.

"I am not touching you!" while holding your finger an inch from someone's neck.

Yet here I am, happy and unaffected. My perspective is not "in favour of the dev". It's "in favour of my own peace of mind." through the power of "accepting reality". As for the ad hominems I'm not going to dignify them with a response.

What they're doing and what I'm doing is fundamentally different. I am discussing people's actions with them. There is a possibility, however slim, that someone might gain some peace of mind or manage to refocus themselves if they take my arguments seriously.

Inversely, their efforts can't possibly gain anyone anything. At worst it's even counter-productive. Several of them have admitted in this short discussion that they're still going to play the game. But their actions could easily result in people choosing not to become (or stay) a patreon member. Which would eventually result in BD losing interest in the project entirely due to the gradual erosion of his financial incentives. Which means the updates will become fewer in between, and the game might even get abandoned entirely. Even if they don't care about playing the game anymore, the action remains destructive. Hence, negativity. Of course it could also have a negligible effect in which case it's "only" a waste of time.

I am in fact, not touching you. If you feel taunted by me not being bothered, that says more about you than it does about me. I would suggest cognitive-to-emotional feedback, but you'd just call me self-righteous again. No matter how dramatic you get, it doesn't change the fact that this entire discussion concerns a trivial topic that has no meaningful impact on any of our lives. So it's rational and reasonable to not be bothered by it. I'm not boasting about how great I am. What I'm doing is not exceptional or difficult. I'm just an average guy.

 

[ShatteredEnigma616]

Aight, so it's an even bigger game. All the more reason not to underestimate how much work that really is.

Yep. 3000 a year is a good average given the quality. I prefer that over games that rush releases where the release quality is significantly lower. In any kind of software project, there's always going to be a trade-off between speed, quantity and quality. This is the mix you get with BD.

As for expectations, I think we just fundamentally disagree about how to control our own, or how to respond to things we don't like. BD is an OCD dev with bad planning and communication skills (not really an uncommon combination when it comes to software engineers and animators). That was made apparently pretty early on. He can make any kind of prediction he wants and I'll take it with a saltshaker. You call it lies, I call it a guy continuously overestimating how fast things will get done to a level he's okay with. Either way it's a subjective judgement and the reality is probably a bit of both.

What it boils down to is that if his predictions are sh*t but his output is still a good average, then there isn't a real problem. It's like complaining that a bus driver isn't driving 130 kph because the bus has been delayed. I'm the kind of guy to just look out the window and enjoy the ride. I can't really relate to seeing excuses as content.

His output is trash, he isn't overestimating he is making claims and then throwing out repeated excuses for delays meanwhile getting paid to pretend he is working. He claims these huge updates are coming uses that to milk money out of suckers then drops a few renders at most to appease the BD bootlickers and apologists so they can go "well he did drop something" yeah he dropped the fucking ball long ago and instead of picking it up he proceeded to teabag it, take a dump on it then kicked it into the faces of the people that USED TO believe in him. Simple. He is a liar. The games quality has gone into the shitter. There was supposed to be a remake of the first season ages ago but he can't be bothered as he is too busy pretending these bread crumb updates are fucking 100 dollar steak dinners. They aren't and the more people like you defend his bullshit the less likely he will bother to actually make the effort. Why would he bother to make any actual effort when people like yourself cover his ass for him? He will just continue to milk people dry while dropping dirt crumbs. At this point he is just throwing out whatever bullshit he can to keep this game going so he can make more money while giving less than the bare minimum.

 

[ShatteredEnigma616]

Yet here I am, happy and unaffected. My perspective is not "in favour of the dev". It's "in favour of my own peace of mind." through the power of "accepting reality". As for the ad hominems I'm not going to dignify them with a response.

What they're doing and what I'm doing is fundamentally different. I am discussing people's actions with them. There is a possibility, however slim, that someone might gain some peace of mind or manage to refocus themselves if they take my arguments seriously.

Inversely, their efforts can't possibly gain anyone anything. At worst it's even counter-productive. Several of them have admitted in this short discussion that they're still going to play the game. But their actions could easily result in people choosing not to become (or stay) a patreon member. Which would eventually result in BD losing interest in the project entirely due to the gradual erosion of his financial incentives. Which means the updates will become fewer in between, and the game might even get abandoned entirely. Even if they don't care about playing the game anymore, the action remains destructive. Hence, negativity. Of course it could also have a negligible effect in which case it's "only" a waste of time.

I am in fact, not touching you. If you feel taunted by me not being bothered, that says more about you than it does about me. I would suggest cognitive-to-emotional feedback, but you'd just call me self-righteous again. No matter how dramatic you get, it doesn't change the fact that this entire discussion concerns a trivial topic that has no meaningful impact on any of our lives. So it's rational and reasonable to not be bothered by it. I'm not boasting about how great I am. What I'm doing is not exceptional or difficult. I'm just an average guy.

I will also add no. I don't feel taunted by you. And no i don't care. Yes I commented that doesn't mean I care that just means I have too much spare time.

 

[Akabakka]

Some are just being positively toxic , and don't even notice it , and even less how it's not better than "regular" toxicity . They got some headcanon about a group of angry dwellers having a stroke each key press . There are probably a few , there always are everywhere ... however , most complainers/whiners , I've seen around are just having fun during free times . Using facts or exaggerated truths , or plain memes about the situation the game is in . Shitposting BD and the game ain't the beginning nor the end of their day , it's just some downtime and a regular check-in.

Ironically its the defense force that feel angry and aggressive the most . Get a mirror already . Just because you're positive about the game , doesn't absolve you from shitty behavior and being actually aggressive and negative toward people you disagree with . And don't even try to deny it .. we do see some pretty triggered folks poppin' once every while , to lay it on thick about "entitlement" "piracy" and other fallacies , just because they got no real argument when sticking to discussing the game ... just plain anger .

 

[grim019]

I am discussing people's actions with them

Al they're doing is discussing BD's actions.

But their actions could easily result in people choosing not to become (or stay) a patreon member. Which would eventually result in BD losing interest in the project entirely due to the gradual erosion of his financial incentives.

It's BD's actions they're criticizing. So ultimatly the blame would be on him.

 

[Goopgoop]

You're putting emotions into people's text, not everyone that comments on a game thread gives a flying fuck about said game.

People generally don't spend time or effort on things they don't give a flying fuck about.

Where did I call you a brownnoser? You said yourself you dont think BD's doing a good job, so clearly youre not a brownnoser.

When you equated what I suggested to "making a safe space for brownnosers":

"Why would I make this a safe space for people that want to brownnose BD when he already has his patreon only discord?"

But it's good that you understand I'm not one... yet somehow I'm still getting dogpiled by the haters for trying to insert some chill-out-it's-just-a-game vibes into the already-ongoing discussion.

And to correct the comparison, what I'm suggesting is actually that if the development of the game is not a valid topic of discussion, as the forum rules suggest, both those defending BD and those attack him would be out of line.

That's your opinion, I disagree, that's fine. I moderate as I see fit, clearly that's not enough for you.

Yep. Ultimately I'm just a user. And whether you consider or apply any of the things I've said is as trivial to me as what everyone thinks of BD or WVM (whether positive or negative). I'll adapt to any environment in a way that is conducive to my well-being regardless. No hard feelings whatsoever. I'm in this discussion purely out of choice.

What rules are they breaking? And you seem to think that people would actually discuss anything here if they "werent run off by the hate train" despite the fact that theres still multiple posters here in the thread that discuss the game... My money would be on this game getting three posts a month, Hell, I've been the one posting the dev updates recently, one was around 20 hours late as well. As I've said multiple times now, people. just. dont. care.

Objectively, the rule quoted earlier. 7, wasn't it? I didn't make the rules, but I think it's a pretty good rule. 3 posts a month is preferable to this. It would be a very different environment and that alone would make it a more conductive place to actually talk about the game. When people showing interest get sarcastic jokes thrown at them, that tends to result in people not to bother asking things or sharing their opinion. Sure, there are people like me with anti-adhesive coating. But not everyone's like that.

But I do understand there are limitations on how much time can be spent enforcing them. It's just that if you have those rules you kind of create the expectation that they will at least be enforced to some degree (see what I did there? ). Because if you don't nobody is going to take them seriously. I moderated some online discussion boards at some point in life.

A pretty good method to de-escalate these kinds of things with little effort is to give a general warning to everyone to take a chill pill or face the consequences. Then account-ban anyone who kept going off-topic a week later and post the names of all the accounts banned in the thread they were banned in. Sends a really strong message regarding adherence to the rules.

Everyone is mainly here for the easy access to adult games. For which you need an account. Now with VPN and an infinite supply of email addresses, anyone who gets account or IP banned can make a new account. But that's still a hassle. So that would already dissuade many to keep such unwelcoming discussions up when warned. Devs and long-time users are even MORE inclined to value their current accounts. The warning means that everyone who gets banned knows exactly what for and they'll learn on their next registration.

Again, feel free to ignore it but don't be surprised if pockets of "wild west" will continue to pop up and create friction in the community. No need to respond. I'll drop it after this. Just some closing thoughts because you asked me a couple of questions.

 

[SerHawkes]

Same shit, new day. Not surprising one bit I see.