Huitieme

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C'mon Huitie, be honest. The real reason you told Notty to make the animations prettier was so you could have more time with the chapter tester-only, to make sure you saw all the content before us regular fans :p
While that does sound like something I would do, the truth is how Akamari said, I respect Notty too much to just let it pass when I see something wrong. I mean, what good are testers that would just act as yes men and only praise her for all the things she does great? By accepting to being a tester for the remaster, we've also accepted the fact that sometimes, we have to tell her that this or that aspect of the chapter is flawed, even if it means postponing the release.

Also, being able to see the content before the pleb you my friends is just a bonus :p
 

reiterhaniwa

Member
Apr 16, 2019
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While that does sound like something I would do, the truth is how Akamari said, I respect Notty too much to just let it pass when I see something wrong. I mean, what good are testers that would just act as yes men and only praise her for all the things she does great? By accepting to being a tester for the remaster, we've also accepted the fact that sometimes, we have to tell her that this or that aspect of the chapter is flawed, even if it means postponing the release.
You won't fool me with your sound logic and commitment to objectivity!
bryce_restaurant.gif
 

Akamari

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May 28, 2017
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Hey man that's uncalled for. I'm an avid lurker and I know whats going on over there. Also that's just wrong. She recently refunded a month's worth of patreon donations because she couldn't deliver (not her fault I know, but still, don't say I'm wrong when I'm not). Also remember that time she went completely AWOL? I thought it was all over.
Sorry, but you are wrong. She refunded March because she felt like she didn't make any progress and it would be unfair to take the money for it. It's not a month of "absolutely nothing, for no good reason" though. First weeks had to be spent re-rendering of like 900 renders worth of animations because of the shader error. Then her motherboard blew up. Then the delivery was taking a long time delivering replacement and extra cooling fans. Awful string of bad luck, but that's life sometimes. She still did work on the game during that month and showed new things.

Also, when she went silent four months ago it didn't take the whole month. There was plenty of activity on her part during both November and December in the end culminating in the release of One. So again, wrong.

Regarding the rest of your post: You may not believe this but when dealing with a perfectionist at work, if u give them unlimited time then I guarantee it, whatever they are doing will take forever. I'm not saying Notty is like this, I don't know her, but maybe just maybe you are treating this whole situation wrong by glorifying perfection and egging it on.

I've seen many a good project stall and fizzle out because it just takes too damn long to deliver anything. People get annoyed, lose interest, forget et c. I'm just saying I'm starting to see the warning signs and I sincerely hope this project doesn't end up there.
Maybe I should have said perfectionists that do get the work done? If they give up then they are not perfectionists. In some way it's her perfectionism and ambition that keeps her going. It's ironic perhaps, but it's the fact the she tends to choose more difficult roads, that she doesn't stay in a comfort zone, that she strives to improve and do the best she can, that and more makes me trust that she won't give up and the game will reach the great potential it has and keeps growing.
 

reiterhaniwa

Member
Apr 16, 2019
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Apologies for triple-posting but whatever, it's late and I couldn't cram any more quotes into one post without offending my aesthetic sensibilities. My fault for not replying to the thread more than once a week, really.

Yeah I mean, when the difference between 98 and 99.9 % production value is half a year or so then maybe the wait isn't worth it?
I can understand your concern, but I don't think it's necessarily accurate. Like the other posters have said, the "production value" is everything from significant graphical upgrades to expanded gameplay, and entirely new or completely rebuilt mechanics to support that, ultimately a whole lot of added complexity. Even if it were just a scene-for-scene and render-for-render graphical update it would be a significant undertaking; the production itself, then making sure everything was implemented correctly, making sure the timing is still correct and adjusting anything that needs it, making sure flags still trigger properly. The fact that we're getting so much extra content on top of that just adds so much more work. And that's just in the implementation - now you have to test everything, make sure bugs are squashed, flags are triggering correctly (more work than it sounds), that everything plays right and that everything is up to par quality-wise.

That's just the technical stuff. Then you have to test that it actually plays well, because all of the extra content and mechanics you've added have just increased the different decision paths you have to take into account by a huge degree; you have to make sure that the player isn't hopelessly confused or arbitrarily railroaded, that everything makes sense (or at least as much sense as it should at the time! :p), that the pacing or tone isn't inconsistent because the new content was written at a different time and has to be integrated into what's already there. In fact, Notty received feedback on a similar point from an early tester - the amount of options you had once the game opened up was a bit overwhelming, because you went from the opening chapter with relatively straightforward branching to having something like two dozen different options you could pick.

Testing is important, because you could have one bug on one very specific path that doesn't get picked up, but it's going to negatively affect the game - somebody's going to pick that path, whether it's because they're trying to see everything or that's just what they picked naturally. Not to say that I or anyone else should expect a totally bug-free game, of course people have to understand, but equally it's important to make sure as much as possible is fixed before release since even a relatively small issue can affect someone's experience with the game to a significant degree.

Personally, I have a tremendous respect for Notty (and our glorious testers, may they live forever) for taking such a strong approach to testing the game. It seems the prevailing attitude among a lot of developers these days is that bugs are inevitable, so they just push the updates out as quickly as seems reasonable and assume that bugs will be identified by the community and fixed after the fact. I can understand why a lot of developers, particularly smaller ones and newer ones, take that approach but it's not good for development.

Finally, this isn't a game that Notty is iterating on by adding a few h-scenes a month. I can understand your concern when you see so many promising games and developers fall into the hole of never releasing because of persistent problems or lack of focus or being improperly focused or whatever. But this is a game that's being rebuilt from the ground up; if it's going to be included it has to be done now. Notty isn't going to release a bare-bones or half-filled version of Chapter 2 and then come back and fill in the missing scenes later, I know it's taking a lot of time, but that's because it's a lot of work.


Wow, this post really got away from me. I don't want it to sound like I'm making a personal criticism of you or anything; I'm just, as always, trying to add some perspective. It's just like my opinion, man. Hopefully it made at least some sort of sense.
tl;dr yes it's taking a long time but I think it's a reasonable amount of time given the work that's actually being done. Your opinion may be different (and therefore incorrect)
 

reiterhaniwa

Member
Apr 16, 2019
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253
Maybe I should have said perfectionists that do get the work done? If they give up then they are not perfectionists. In some way it's her perfectionism and ambition that keeps her going. It's ironic perhaps, but it's the fact the she tends to choose more difficult roads, that she doesn't stay in a comfort zone, that she strives to improve and do the best she can, that and more makes me trust that she won't give up and the game will reach the great potential it has and keeps growing.
It's all about whether it's a reasonable amount of time spent on the work, right? And that's always going to be partially subjective.

Awful string of bad luck, but that's life sometimes.
As the great Dean Martin once said, that's life, guys.
 

Akamari

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popabear I'm sorry if it came too harsh from me. I know you mean well and I didn't intend to question your support.

However, I think it's important to appreciate all the work done on the game. Not just the kind that will make the release, but also all the work that ends up being stepping stones for further improvements, and yes all the work that is identified as flawed and has to be redone. I think it's safe to say that vast majority of errors (if not all) that required significant time to fix were new. Notty does learn from her mistakes, so the positive thing to take out of them is that they are unlikely to happen again.

No need to worry, she'll make it. :)
 

xsssssssss

Active Member
Jun 17, 2017
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Notty’s perfectionism is a double edged sword. Without it we wouldn’t have the quality came that is heavy five but equally unfortunately there isn’t that corresponding force to act upon it and limit it.
 
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TheDevian

Svengali Productions
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Mar 8, 2018
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Notty’s perfectionism is a double edged sword. Without it we wouldn’t have the quality came that is heavy five but equally unfortunately there isn’t that corresponding force to act upon it and limit it.
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, I will take quality over quantity almost every time.
 

Akamari

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Notty’s perfectionism is a double edged sword. Without it we wouldn’t have the quality came that is heavy five but equally unfortunately there isn’t that corresponding force to act upon it and limit it.
I'd say only the first edge is sharp. Honestly, I can't remember a single instance where I would think Notty's last minute improvement wouldn't result into, well, an improvement. I think her perfectionism is more on the positive side, and results of it make the game better. Don't we all want the game to be the best it can be? :)
 
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xsssssssss

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Jun 17, 2017
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I'd say only the first edge is sharp. Honestly, I can't remember a single instance where I would think Notty's last minute improvement wouldn't result into, well, an improvement. I think her perfectionism is more on the positive side, and results of it make the game better. Don't we all want the game to be the best it can be? :)
I’m not sure every marginal improvement is worth the extra development time.
I want the game to be good and i accept that’s how she works but Equally i’d Like to play it.
 
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Akamari

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I’m not sure every marginal improvement is worth the extra development time.
I want the game to be good and i accept that’s how she works but Equally i’d Like to play it.
Well, marginal improvements typically take only marginal time.

What Notty's doing now for example about one Chris's route sounds far from marginal.
Notty said:
Oh I should probs add that I haven't -just- started rendering Chris, she's been rendered twice so far but out of all the "end" scenes this is the one that's causing me the most problems.

I just can't quite get the feel of maximum impact right and I'm giving it a third go today with a new script and renders based on the above. For peeps going down this path I simply have to get a feel of playfulness on her part whilst also making the player feel both slightly scared and excited. I always hated the original version as it was sorely lacking but this time I want to crack it.
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popabear

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Jul 11, 2019
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Fuck. I was trying to tell myself to shut up now and not stir any more shit. But 2 glasses of wine later and that promise went out the window.
It seems the prevailing attitude among a lot of developers these days is that bugs are inevitable, so they just push the updates out as quickly as seems reasonable and assume that bugs will be identified by the community and fixed after the fact. I can understand why a lot of developers, particularly smaller ones and newer ones, take that approach but it's not good for development.
I'm decidedly undecided here. If you project the current development pace into the future (1.5 years for 2 chapters) then we'll see the full game 5-7 years from now (Ok that's not a fair comparison I know ch 3 is almost out, but it was almost out at the start of April too, with first week of April as projected release date. Well it's pretty much May now so I don't really know what to make of that). I've been around long enough to know by now that any projected date of any kind will be delayed at least two weeks, but more likely a month or several months.

It also seems extremely excessive to treat every chapter release as a full game release, with quality control and thorough testing at every step. I mean bug fixing I can understand, that's the kind of flaw that can make anyone go "fuck this shit" and uninstall if it's too bad. But aesthetic polish? Not worth. That can get collected with feedback after release and fixed after the fact without problems or having it cause severe delays.

I'm starting to like the devs that just dump what they have done every month, even if the cutoff point doesn't make 100 % sense. That way I can just wait a few months before downloading if I want to experience it in larger chunks. It also seems more fair and transparent to the patreons, as it shows what has actually been done. I don't think Notty will ever do this though, I'm just saying it has it's merits too.

I don't want it to sound like I'm making a personal criticism of you or anything; I'm just, as always, trying to add some perspective. It's just like my opinion, man. Hopefully it made at least some sort of sense.
tl;dr yes it's taking a long time but I think it's a reasonable amount of time given the work that's actually being done. Your opinion may be different (and therefore incorrect)
No worries man. I'm not one to take offense lightly. Besides, it's just your opinion, dude ;)
popabear I'm sorry if it came too harsh from me. I know you mean well and I didn't intend to question your support.

However, I think it's important to appreciate all the work done on the game. Not just the kind that will make the release, but also all the work that ends up being stepping stones for further improvements, and yes all the work that is identified as flawed and has to be redone. I think it's safe to say that vast majority of errors (if not all) that required significant time to fix were new. Notty does learn from her mistakes, so the positive thing to take out of them is that they are unlikely to happen again.

No need to worry, she'll make it. :)
No offense taken. I just hope I don't have to wait 5 more years to see the rest of the story.
I'd say only the first edge is sharp. Honestly, I can't remember a single instance where I would think Notty's last minute improvement wouldn't result into, well, an improvement. I think her perfectionism is more on the positive side, and results of it make the game better. Don't we all want the game to be the best it can be? :)
I want the best game it can be, within a reasonable timeframe. Is 5 more years reasonable? I honestly don't know. I'm feeling the fanboy in me fatigue already.
 

DA22

Devoted Member
Jan 10, 2018
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Message from Notty today on her forum. Testing round 3 has started. Now lets hope they find nothing that is not small and easily fixed (Oh and yes I do expect them to be honest if fair, or they will be in trouble. Remember I know who you are :p) :

Right, it's with the guys so I'll leave it with the boys to rip it to shreads whilst I fuck off and have a jaffa cake...
 

Huitieme

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In this game can I select MC gender or not yet?
Yep, in the Remastered version you can choose a gender and a race (black/white).
And each choice feels different enough that each playthrough adds something new. Other characters won't react and treat you the same depending on your gender and skin color.
 
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