Maviarab

Devoted Member
Jul 12, 2020
8,443
18,829
Jesus Fucking Christ, it's almost like the character has a 180 degree personality switch,after her first day of being the M.C.'s PA.
Exactly my point. Because she didn't. You didn't know her fucking personality before....did you? You just assumed. And you know what they say about assumed...right? ;)

Jesus Fucking Christ,it's like the MC is railroaded into accepting her as his P.A.
This one I'll give you, yet for some reason, no one is whining like a little girl over that forced decision....convenient.

Jesus Fucking Christ,who even says Jesus Fucking Christ?
I do, problem with that?

As an aside if she is the MC's P.A. doesn't that mean she's basically going to have more screentime than every character except Louise?
Certainly possible, or she may be forced to leave like other characters did....another forced decision...which no one really whines about.

Wish to try and add anything else?
 

SlapE

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2022
1,681
4,645
Jesus fucking christ....

You're all talking like Kiki has been around since the start of the game and only just has a major character change/switch. Sure you might have liked her, but barring a couple of pretty short interactions, we knew absolutely...nothing...whatsever....about her.

If you made up some fantasy story about her character and personality based on that...the problem lies with you...not her character or her design.
You're right that we didn't have many interactions with her before this update, but we had a few, and she never came off like she did in this update. We were given the option to enter a relationship with her BEFORE we knew how much of a slut she was.
If we knew beforehand, and it didn't seemingly come outta left field, I wouldn't have even cared. Also, my main problem with it isn't even the sluttiness itself, but more so the lack of variation in her paths, they are all basically the same. :D

Anyways, this topic really has run dry for me, and I'll just wait to see where the next update takes us!
 

Maviarab

Devoted Member
Jul 12, 2020
8,443
18,829
You're right that we didn't have many interactions with her before this update, but we had a few, and she never came off like she did in this update. We were given the option to enter a relationship with her BEFORE we knew how much of a slut she was.
If we knew beforehand, and it didn't seemingly come outta left field, I wouldn't have even cared. Also, my main problem with it isn't even the sluttiness itself, but more so the lack of variation in her paths, they are all basically the same. :D

Anyways, this topic really has run dry for me, and I'll just wait to see where the next update takes us!
Slap..unlike some of the morons in this thread...I actually like you and generally appreciate your posts. So I choose my words carefully.

She never came off as that way? As what exactly? Why would she...you just met her! She was also working...remember...behind the receptionist desk. Exactly what do some people want (and yes I will die on this fucking hill regardless of the amount of facepalms I get from MoP rofl...bring em on fella's)...I can just see the dialogue exchange now:

Kiki: Welcome Sir, do you have a reservation?
Lois: Whatever Blurb
MC: Whatever blurb
Kiki: That's wonderful sir, you're in room 207....btw...I might come up later because I'm a nasty slut who loves it rough by multiple cocks!

Like seriously....why the fuck would she actually even mention this/offer this information at any point in time before getting the job, especially considering at that time, once you leave the hotel, for her, your interactions with her are done and dusted? Like seriously? I swear some folk in this thread are on drugs (not mreaning you Slap btw).
 

linkinn

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2020
1,074
7,959
As I've said many times, this is my first VN. Some things I get right first time, others change based on feedback, whether it be from here, Patreon, or anywhere else for that matter.
You knew this was going to happen, and you'll do it again (hiding like it was an honest/newbie mistake), anyone who doesn't see it by now is blinder than Ray Charles.
 

xapican

Devoted Member
May 11, 2020
8,620
12,711
I really don't understand, the whole passion in this convos, Kiki's darkside came surprisingly, yes, not judging here if it is offputing or not, since we deal with very different theresolds, and tolerace limits (at least from the guy's which I interact, more frequetly like Slap, Mavaria,Motseer PapaPhat)
there is a psycological phenomena, similar to the famos "Stockholm syndrome" in which victims or gangrape or forced sex start to get "like" or better said can gain lust from this practices, Kiki, how she confesses wasn't oposed to the group expirece, only that she wanted to have a say in it , and for shure not how it all happend, with the blackmail part afterward.
I took it that she is so open to the MC because she trusts him and I bet Lois has played a role in it, since she trained her (there was an insinuation of this a few updates ago) andhow Slap said, and I'm with him on board, it is for the Vainilla path a bit to strong.
She is P.A. and Lois was promoted to Co Ceo or Ceo hence she can veto or take decisions which go against your decisions, more so where there was a Dialoge line , in which the MC say's he trusts her ability more than his own.
So it is extremly difficult to write Kiki's character to not outplay Lois or Kari and being interesting enough to be one of the Sidegirls this is moreso complicated as you are on Harem path as canon playtrough as myself.
Luckyly Togs confirmed that he will, tweak everything, as the oportunity arises.
so for me is all good.
 
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Pr0GamerJohnny

Forum Fanatic
Sep 7, 2022
5,414
7,771
togs-games
As it's just you solo on the dev team (and I certainly commend you for your work thus far!), have you considered the idea I floated earlier of separating each girls "relationship vars" from their "behaviorial vars"? It looks like variables are already in place, you could just use Character.relationship as one, and Character.status as another. Or alternatively use the existing loisslut/loissub and add others for stuff like karislut/kari sub.

I mention this because as it is now; while there are some small opportunities to have dual traits, they require very specific paths like having lois as slut first, then making her your gf. IMO it wouldn't be much work for you to slightly modify this, and would provide a huge amount of replayability for people who want to try other combinations.
 
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kantigura

Newbie
Mar 17, 2019
89
152
I really don't understand, the whole passion in this convos, Kiki's darkside came surprisingly, yes, not judging here if it is offputing or not, since we deal with very different theresolds, and tolerace limits (at least from the guy's which I interact, more frequetly like Slap, Mavaria,Motseer PapaPhat)
there is a psycological phenomena, similar to the famos "Stockholm syndrome" in which victims or gangrape or forced sex start to get "like" or better said can gain lust from this practices, Kiki, how she confesses wasn't oposed to the group expirece, only that she wanted to have a say in it , and for shure not how it all happend, with the blackmail part afterward.
I took it that she is so open to the MC because she trusts him and I bet Lois has played a role in it, since she trained her (there was an insinuation of this a few updates ago) andhow Slap said, and I'm with him on board, it is for the Vainilla path a bit to strong.
She is P.A. and Lois was promoted to Co Ceo or Ceo hence she can veto or take decisions which go against your decisions, more so where there was a Dialoge line , in which the MC say's he trusts her ability more than his own.
So it is extremly difficult to write Kiki's character to not outplay Lois or Kari and being interesting enough to be one of the Sidegirls this is moreso complicated as you are on Harem path as canon playtrough as myself.
Luckyly Togs confirmed that he will, tweak everything, as the oportunity arises.
so for me is all good.
Would be nice though if the slut/sub/mistress choice made a difference. Wouldn't care if she was a whore in the slut/sub path, but would be nice for it to be toned down in the mistress path. As it is feels like there is no reason to choose that one as she is whore sub no matter what you choose.
 

xapican

Devoted Member
May 11, 2020
8,620
12,711
Would be nice though if the slut/sub/mistress choice made a difference. Wouldn't care if she was a whore in the slut/sub path, but would be nice for it to be toned down in the mistress path. As it is feels like there is no reason to choose that one as she is whore sub no matter what you choose.
yes, that is exactly how I read Togs post, and what SlapE expressed, and I think all, of us agree on that, also concerning the P.A. there is Vanessa (England the evening event) who jumped at the MC she could be an alternative as PA or Cassie the point, is that Togs is alone with all the development, and tweaking this inconsitences, will delay a bit the main, story, afaik there is the Vanilla path to be extended, and the whole Lois branch since she has become a second Main LI besides Kari
 

internet_says

Newbie
Jul 17, 2017
89
130
So it is extremly difficult to write Kiki's character to not outplay Lois or Kari and being interesting enough to be one of the Sidegirls this is moreso complicated as you are on Harem path as canon playtrough as myself.
Luckyly Togs confirmed that he will, tweak everything, as the oportunity arises.
so for me is all good.
Also from a game design point of view, promoting a side character to a more prominent role this far into an adult game would feel like going backward unless she had some level of parity with the sexual progress the other girls have had to this point otherwise it'd just feel like starting over with Lois basically. Also there isn't really a potential love interest that is overtly sexual even in public yet so Kiki provides that variety.

I like the Kiki character, but I think the transition from seemingly more shy to being more open could be done more smoothly like I said in previous posts by adding some dialog possibly before the Lois and Kiki in the office stripping scene about how she was trying to demure and shy because she thought the MC would want and after seeing Lois and the MC working together she wants to come clean and that she actually like showing off and sex and stuff so working in this environment would suit her perfectly.

looking forward to the next update and good to see you back togs-games
 

SlapE

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2022
1,681
4,645
Slap..unlike some of the morons in this thread...I actually like you and generally appreciate your posts. So I choose my words carefully.

She never came off as that way? As what exactly? Why would she...you just met her! She was also working...remember...behind the receptionist desk. Exactly what do some people want (and yes I will die on this fucking hill regardless of the amount of facepalms I get from MoP rofl...bring em on fella's)...I can just see the dialogue exchange now:

Kiki: Welcome Sir, do you have a reservation?
Lois: Whatever Blurb
MC: Whatever blurb
Kiki: That's wonderful sir, you're in room 207....btw...I might come up later because I'm a nasty slut who loves it rough by multiple cocks!

Like seriously....why the fuck would she actually even mention this/offer this information at any point in time before getting the job, especially considering at that time, once you leave the hotel, for her, your interactions with her are done and dusted? Like seriously? I swear some folk in this thread are on drugs (not mreaning you Slap btw).
In general I agree with you about not knowing her, but she did start showing her true self at her workplace, though I suppose maybe after she done secured her job she no longer cared to hide it? :p

Idk I just feel like maybe, she should have waited to talk to the MC about it away from work, and also Idk why she wanted a relationship with the MC considering like you said, they didn't know each other. I still stand by this update made no damn sense, and Kiki's character is bizarre to me. :ROFLMAO:

*Edit* Oh and also, that club scene was really weird with her as well, it felt like we had no control over anything there. Even on her sub path, where we as the player piloting the MC, are supposed to be able to have some say in certain things, but we instead just sit there and watch this old wrinkly man direct her instead. Then we get the choice between letting her blow someone and get fucked or just stand around naked holding drinks while we get her off. When I chose her sub path, I was hoping to be able to get similar options to Lois where we can train her on our in a private room. Instead it seems like this old wrinkly fuck is going to do it for us probably. (Well not me, In my actual save I took her to the bar)
 
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kantigura

Newbie
Mar 17, 2019
89
152
yes, that is exactly how I read Togs post, and what SlapE expressed, and I think all, of us agree on that, also concerning the P.A. there is Vanessa (England the evening event) who jumped at the MC she could be an alternative as PA or Cassie the point, is that Togs is alone with all the development, and tweaking this inconsitences, will delay a bit the main, story, afaik there is the Vanilla path to be extended, and the whole Lois branch since she has become a second Main LI besides Kari
Even a small change is dialog from how she talks about what happened to her would make a big difference. She never once calls it a rape and even talk about how she drank and went to his room to have sex a "tart with a heart" I believe is how she put it. She never even mentions telling them no or asking them to stop. I think if she called it a rape and instead of having gone to his room she was drugged and woke up not knowing what happened until they showed her video, that would change some perceptions of her. That and not always talking about the men she has and would sleep with. I just found this VN with the last update, and I really enjoy it. I appreciate all the work the dev has put into the three paths for all the LI's. For example, I've tried the Lois sub and mistress path and I enjoy how different they feel. Would like to see that with Kiki, but at the end of the day, it's the dev's story, time, and effort. If the dev tweaks it or not it, I will still like the game, would just keep Kiki on the buisness only path.
 

motseer

Engaged Member
Dec 17, 2021
2,565
5,935
Slap..unlike some of the morons in this thread...I actually like you and generally appreciate your posts. So I choose my words carefully.

She never came off as that way? As what exactly? Why would she...you just met her! She was also working...remember...behind the receptionist desk. Exactly what do some people want (and yes I will die on this fucking hill regardless of the amount of facepalms I get from MoP rofl...bring em on fella's)...I can just see the dialogue exchange now:

Kiki: Welcome Sir, do you have a reservation?
Lois: Whatever Blurb
MC: Whatever blurb
Kiki: That's wonderful sir, you're in room 207....btw...I might come up later because I'm a nasty slut who loves it rough by multiple cocks!

Like seriously....why the fuck would she actually even mention this/offer this information at any point in time before getting the job, especially considering at that time, once you leave the hotel, for her, your interactions with her are done and dusted? Like seriously? I swear some folk in this thread are on drugs (not mreaning you Slap btw).
Maviarab... "unlike some of the morons in this thread...I actually like you and generally appreciate your posts. So I choose my words carefully". You are on the wrong side of the fence on this one. Both sides: the I like slutty Kiki side and the I want a wholesome relationship side would get to have their way if the choice (and there was one - similar to the choice on the plane with Lois) had mattered. As I have understood the sensible posts (and they are few) togs got a bit caught up in the feedback and didn't do the best job of making a branch. It may well be that gets corrected. As things stand currently, Kiki behaves and responds almost exactly the same no matter which choice you make. Yes, yes... there are some differences. But! Not enough. Read the last 20 pages of the thread objectively. Of people who say they wanted a girlfriend relationship, pretty much 100% were unhappy. Of people who say they wanted a slutty Kiki, pretty much 100% say the rest of us should stop complaining. What? WTF is wrong with you? You get your way (which is fine with me) but I don't get mine? Fuck you, man.

You're not on the wrong side of the fence because you are wrong. You're on the wrong side of the fence because you still haven't grasped that the debate and dissatisfaction is about choice... or, rather, lack thereof. There was a choice for what type of a lover we wanted Lois to be and we thought we were getting a choice like it for Kiki. It wasn't there. Maybe that gets fixed. Maybe not. But, the bottom line for 98% of this loooooonnnnggg ass debate? Don't try to tell me what I should or should not want.

I truly hope you take this comment well. I have tried for two days to keep my mouth shut but the dam finally broke. If I offend you with this post... Well, maybe one day you'll have the shoe on the other foot and remember it... Jus' Sayin' :cool: Ride on, m8.

I really don't understand, the whole passion in this convos, Kiki's darkside came surprisingly, yes, not judging here if it is offputing or not, since we deal with very different theresolds, and tolerace limits (at least from the guy's which I interact, more frequetly like Slap, Mavaria,Motseer PapaPhat)
there is a psycological phenomena, similar to the famos "Stockholm syndrome" in which victims or gangrape or forced sex start to get "like" or better said can gain lust from this practices, Kiki, how she confesses wasn't oposed to the group expirece, only that she wanted to have a say in it , and for shure not how it all happend, with the blackmail part afterward.
I took it that she is so open to the MC because she trusts him and I bet Lois has played a role in it, since she trained her (there was an insinuation of this a few updates ago) andhow Slap said, and I'm with him on board, it is for the Vainilla path a bit to strong.
She is P.A. and Lois was promoted to Co Ceo or Ceo hence she can veto or take decisions which go against your decisions, more so where there was a Dialoge line , in which the MC say's he trusts her ability more than his own.
So it is extremly difficult to write Kiki's character to not outplay Lois or Kari and being interesting enough to be one of the Sidegirls this is moreso complicated as you are on Harem path as canon playtrough as myself.
Luckyly Togs confirmed that he will, tweak everything, as the oportunity arises.
so for me is all good.
No, you really do understand, man, and you mostly always do. You've spent the last week trying to be a voice of reason in this debate and I commend you for it...
So... Everybody... listen up...
What xap said TM
 
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MasterGamer1234567890

Active Member
Oct 25, 2022
590
523
Read the last 20 pages of the thread objectively. Of people who say they wanted a girlfriend relationship, pretty much 100% were unhappy. Of people who say they wanted a slutty Kiki, pretty much 100% say the rest of us should stop complaining. What? WTF is wrong with you? You get your way (which is fine with me) but I don't get mine? Fuck you, man.
I'm not sure we are reading the same thread, because to me it looks like it's pretty even. I agree, that in the beginning I was pretty alone, but on the last 3-5 pages there has been quite a number of others who has come forward and shown they like Kiki too, with character "change" and all.

To figure out who likes Kiki and who don't, you just need to look at the likes on the posts for those who likes Kiki. The faceplams are all from people who don't like Kiki, while any other likes are from people who likes Kiki.

Beside that. I'm not sure what is worse. Telling people to stop complaining about a character "change" in a character you have barely meet before or facepalming every single post from people who have a different opinion than yours?
 
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Pr0GamerJohnny

Forum Fanatic
Sep 7, 2022
5,414
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Of people who say they wanted a girlfriend relationship, pretty much 100% were unhappy.
What about the people who wanted a Kiki girlfriend relationship where she's willing to get slutty? :devilish: My complaint isnt over the slewing, but rather you're never offered any kind of romance with her. I didn't do the lodge stuff because I won't go down sub path with Lois.
 
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Jan 18, 2021
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Beside that. I'm not sure what is worse. Telling people to stop complaining about a character "change" in a character you have barely meet before or facepalming every single post from people who have a different opinion than yours?
It looks like you are not understanding why you got those facepalms. I didn't give you any of those facepalms, but I just had a look at the last 20 pages to see which messages got a facepalm and which ones didn't. As far as I understand, none of these facepalms are "from people who have a different opinion than yours," contrary to what you are claiming. Instead, they all seem to be about you misunderstanding or misrepresenting what others were saying, or sometimes misunderstanding the game that we are talking about here.

To set the context, your first message on Nov 1, 2023 started with "If this is going to be yet another multiple path/endings VN, then I'm dropping it." This was not a very good start because a large part of the appeal of this game is that Togs did a great job about offering multiple paths for each of the main characters. Your initial attitude has probably influenced how people reacted to your other messages, because it looks like you wanted to deny other players from the choices that they enjoyed in this game. Note that you did not get any facepalm for stating your opinion.

After some messages from several players saying that they were disappointed with some of the recent changes and the lack of choice in the latest version of the game, you got your first facepalms when you replied "this VN just became A WHOLE LOT MORE INTERESTING." and "Well. It sounds like one of us will have to give up on this VN, since there is no way the dev. will be able to please us both." Basically, you show that you are enjoying the fact that other players are disappointed, and you are taunting them about it. The facepalms do not seem to be related to having a different opinion; they are related to your attitude.

Then you posted more messages expressing your opinion. No facepalms there, even for your messages in which you described the polite complaints of other players as "hate speech". Then you got more facepalms for a message in which you reply to gregers who was explaining how the game has been from the start, and your reply seems to be a bit out of touch with reality. These facepalms should not be very surprising.

Several other messages in which you were explaining your opinion or reacting to other players did not get any facepalms. But then you got some for a provocative message in which you wrote: "If I was a dev. I would definitely listen more to the patreon community than the parasite's on this board." This is followed by several messages in which you disagreed with others but did not get any facepalms. Your next ones were for a message in which you wrote that the new content was requested by Patreon supporters and some of them liked the update: "And last but not least. There are also comments on Patreon, from people who likes the new content.". But that was a misrepresentation of the Patreon feedback because at that time the majority of the feedback on Patreon was from players who were disappointed with that new content. Also, you were opposing the Patreon community and the "parasites on this board", apparently without realizing that some of the active users here were also supporting Togs on Patreon (and did not like the recent changes).

You also got some facepalms for a message in which you were patronizing: "It looks like some people here have WAY to much time on their hand to play this VN. You should really try to turn off the computer and go out at meet some real people instead of living your life through a VN." It was rather bold of you to give this lesson to other players, considering that during the previous day you had posted four times more messages than anybody else.

I could continue like that with other examples, but from my point of view the pattern is clear: I did not see a single case in which you got a facepalm for simply stating your opinion and disagreeing with others. All of the facepalms that you got were reacting to messages in which you were misunderstanding or twisting what others were saying (I will not try to guess if that twisting was intentional or accidental). As I said above, I did not give you a single facepalm. But after checking the last 20 pages of this forum, it is clear that the reason why you got these facepalms is related to your attitude, not to your opinion.
 

motseer

Engaged Member
Dec 17, 2021
2,565
5,935
I'm not sure we are reading the same thread, because to me it looks like it's pretty even. I agree, that in the beginning it was me against all of you, but on the last 3-5 pages there has been quite a number of others who has come forward and shown they like Kiki with character "change" at all.

To figure out who likes Kiki and who don't, you just need to look at the likes on the posts for those who likes Kiki. The faceplams are all from people who don't like Kiki, while any other likes are from people who likes Kiki.

Beside that. I'm not sure what is worse. Telling people to stop complaining about a character "change" in a character you have barely meet before or facepalming every single post from people who have a different opinion than yours?
Last time I will ever reply to anything you post because it just isn't worth the trouble... I have never facepalmed anyone... ever. But you will be the first one I ignore. I have nothing against you other than the fact that you can't or won't do anything but argue and try to counterpoint anything anybody says unless their comment bows to your infinite wisdom. In short... you are boring as hell and twice as aggravating. Yep, a couple of people have decided to chime in with you of late. They were even people who normally take a more thoughtful stance. Doesn't matter. You're still a troll who does nothing but stir shit. See ya. Ummm... I guess... actually, I won't.

What about the people who wanted a Kiki girlfriend relationship where she's willing to get slutty? :devilish: My complaint isnt over the slewing, but rather you're never offered any kind of romance with her. I didn't do the lodge stuff because I won't go down sub path with Lois.
Yep, feel free to make your case, man. I'm not trying to speak for everyone. Just addressing the cancel culture that crept in here...
 

Bombmaster

Well-Known Member
May 8, 2022
1,316
2,095
What about the people who wanted a Kiki girlfriend relationship where she's willing to get slutty? :devilish: My complaint isnt over the slewing, but rather you're never offered any kind of romance with her. I didn't do the lodge stuff because I won't go down sub path with Lois.
Yeah turning Lois into a slut was a thought so absurd that only after finding her renders into the folder that came to my attention.

But makes sense Slut Lois because she is a more fleshed LI and make our feelings work.

Kiki just can't work in the same way, no connection with her.
 
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Maviarab

Devoted Member
Jul 12, 2020
8,443
18,829
Would be nice though if the slut/sub/mistress choice made a difference. Wouldn't care if she was a whore in the slut/sub path, but would be nice for it to be toned down in the mistress path. As it is feels like there is no reason to choose that one as she is whore sub no matter what you choose.
This is something I will always agree on wholeheartedly. If giving different routes for a character, they should be distinct.

Maviarab... "unlike some of the morons in this thread...I actually like you and generally appreciate your posts. So I choose my words carefully". You are on the wrong side of the fence on this one. Both sides: the I like slutty Kiki side and the I want a wholesome relationship side would get to have their way if the choice (and there was one - similar to the choice on the plane with Lois) had mattered. As I have understood the sensible posts (and they are few) togs got a bit caught up in the feedback and didn't do the best job of making a branch. It may well be that gets corrected. As things stand currently, Kiki behaves and responds almost exactly the same no matter which choice you make. Yes, yes... there are some differences. But! Not enough. Read the last 20 pages of the thread objectively. Of people who say they wanted a girlfriend relationship, pretty much 100% were unhappy. Of people who say they wanted a slutty Kiki, pretty much 100% say the rest of us should stop complaining. What? WTF is wrong with you? You get your way (which is fine with me) but I don't get mine? Fuck you, man.

You're not on the wrong side of the fence because you are wrong. You're on the wrong side of the fence because you still haven't grasped that the debate and dissatisfaction is about choice... or, rather, lack thereof. There was a choice for what type of a lover we wanted Lois to be and we thought we were getting a choice like it for Kiki. It wasn't there. Maybe that gets fixed. Maybe not. But, the bottom line for 98% of this loooooonnnnggg ass debate? Don't try to tell me what I should or should not want.

I truly hope you take this comment well. I have tried for two days to keep my mouth shut but the dam finally broke. If I offend you with this post... Well, maybe one day you'll have the shoe on the other foot and remember it... Jus' Sayin' :cool: Ride on, m8.


No, you really do understand, man, and you mostly always do. You've spent the last week trying to be a voice of reason in this debate and I commend you for it...
So... Everybody... listen up...
What xap said TM
No I'm not offended, I have a pretty thick skin generally. However, I'm not wrong at all. You said it yourself...in your own post....your own words...right above...you THOUGHT.

So I'll say it again....everyone knows what thought and assumed did? Correct, they fucked off to Rio in a row boat and lived happily ever after. No one knew anything about the character. People assumed...and thought. Well, suck it up princesses, they were wrong. That's entirely on them. Until actually presented with information, better not to assume what someones personality is like (btw, surprisingly this works really well in real life too). You don't get to coveniently pick what someones back story and/or personality are.

Could it have come out slightly differently? Perhaps yes, I won't argue with that but as I think someone else mentioned, she was never against what happened per-se, just how it happened and her having no agency and it is a well known fact that situations like that can and do lead to somone pursuing it futher themselves with their own agency and control. Like SlapE said also, once having secured the new job, then you can let it out if you feel it won't be an issue with someone you trust (providing you're actually interested in them. If we never had any intimacy with her, would we ever know? Think about that next time you look at your collegues). As I said over and over, why the hell would anyone ever offer this kind of information before the point she did. Sorry, but literally no one would under the circumstances/times that we are presented with in the story.

The problem here is people...not her character, not her backstory and not the way she is written. Usually the same people who can't handle the fact their favourite waifu has fucked someone else before them and isn't quite as pure as the driven snow as they would like. Let's be honest, you see it everyday on this site in pretty much every thread lol. Like seriously, people need to get a grip, though we all know how fragile many people on this site are. Maybe they should just stick to things like MNF instead, probably much more their cup of the proverbial tea.

Again, I will concede, when it comes to her different paths, they should indeed be very different from each other, but even then, that does not negate her personality type or backstory. You don't have to like that personality and backstory, but it's there nontheless and that is part of my reasoning for not caring. I couldn't care less about her story/history...because it's a godamn game at the end of the day, however again, yes, much like Lois, her distinct different paths, should be distinct from each other. I've never argued against that point, not once, only that her story should always have been unknown to us because there is no way in hell anyone would ever offer up that information prior. if some folk can't handle she likes what she likes, that's on them ultimately, not anyone else and certainly not on Togs. We have enough perfect women in this game in my own opinion, I actually think Kiki is a breath of fresh air in her depiction. There are also numerous, literally numerous forced decision, in...every....single...VN...on this site....it's nothing unusual. We also I might add, have no agency over Lois' back story either...no choice there, only a choice going forward. So really, what's the difference? (other than the point I made earlier which is actually the real issue).

Edited for grammar
 
Last edited:

HornyyPussy

Message Maven
Apr 26, 2020
12,783
29,866
Jesus fucking christ....

You're all talking like Kiki has been around since the start of the game and only just has a major character change/switch. Sure you might have liked her, but barring a couple of pretty short interactions, we knew absolutely...nothing...whatsever....about her.

If you made up some fantasy story about her character and personality based on that...the problem lies with you...not her character or her design.
This is something I will always agree on wholeheartedly. If giving different routes for a character, they should be distinct.



No I'm not offended, I have a pretty thick skin generally. However, I'm not wrong at all. You said it yourself...in your own post....your own words...right above...you THOUGHT.

So I'll say it again....everyone knows what thought and assumed did? Correct, they fucked off to Rio in a row boat and lived happily ever after. No one knew anything about the character. People assumed...and thought. Well, suck it up princesses, they were wrong. That's entirely on them. Until actually presented with information, better not to assume what someones personality is like (btw, surprisingly this works really well in real life too). You don't get to coveniently pick what someones back story and/or personality are.

Could it have come out slightly differently? Perhaps yes, I won't argue with that but as I think someone else mentioned, she was never against what happened per-se, just how it happened and her having no agency and it is a well known fact that situations like that can and do lead to somone pursuing it futher themselves with their own agency and control. Like SlapE said also, once having secured the new job, then you can let it out if you feel it won't be an issue with someone you trust (providing you're actually interested in them. If we never had any intimacy with her, would we ever know? Think about that next time you look at your collegues). As I said over and over, why the hell would anyone ever offer this kind of information before the point she did. Sorry, but literally no one would under the circumstances/times that we are presented with in the story.

The problem here is people...not her character, not her backstory and not the way she is written. Usually the same people who can't handle the fact their favourite waifu has fucked someone else before them and isn't quite as pure as the driven snow as they would like. Let's be honest, you see it everyday on this site in pretty much every thread lol. Like seriously, people need to get a grip, though we all know how fragile many people on this site are. Maybe they should just stick to things like MNF instead, probably much more their cup of the proverbial tea.

Again, I will concede, when it comes to her different paths, they should indeed be very different from each other, but even then, that does not negate her personality type or backstory. You don't have to like that personality and backstory, but it's there nontheless and that is part of my reasoning for not caring. I couldn't care less about her story/history...because it's a godamn game at the end of the day, however again, yes, much like Lois, her distinct different paths, should be distinct from each other. I've never argued against that point, not once, only that her story should always have been unknown to us because there is no way in hell anyone would ever offer up that information prior. if some folk can't handle she likes what she likes, that's on them ultimately, not anyone else and certainly not on Togs. We have enough perfect women in this game in my own opinion, I actually think Kiki is a breath of fresh air in her depiction. There are also numerous, literally numerous forced decision, in...every....single...VN...on this site....it's nothing unusual. We also I might add, have no agency over Lois' back story either...no choice there, only a choice going forward. So really, what's the difference? (other than the point I made earlier which is actually the real issue).

Edited for grammar
tsk tsk tsk........going with logic eh? BAD MAVI, BAD!!!
 

motseer

Engaged Member
Dec 17, 2021
2,565
5,935
This is something I will always agree on wholeheartedly. If giving different routes for a character, they should be distinct.

Again, I will concede, when it comes to her different paths, they should indeed be very different from each other...
Thank you. Since that was the only point I was trying to make... 'nuff said... I'm out.
 
3.80 star(s) 76 Votes