I dont remember any password actually
deepl is just one of the best translator AIs out there:
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it's all very well explained here:
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Recommending Help with Netorare (NTR) - Definitions, Recommendations and Resources
- Thread starter sfoMMA85
- Start date
deepl is just one of the best translator AIs out there:
it's all very well explained here:
I remember that I played this once and I think I liked it. Will have a look at it and your other recommendations again. Thx a lot !
There is a remastered version coming this year most likelyI remember that I played this once and I think I liked it. Will have a look at it and your other recommendations again. Thx a lot !
Hey man. You think you could repost that list of upcoming games? There was a few I was interested in.I remember that I played this once and I think I liked it. Will have a look at it and your other recommendations again. Thx a lot !
A big part of the list was from John.Terminus. You can find his list here
I decided against the news and coming releases section simply because I dont have the time for keeping it up to date.
- May 4, 2021
- 540
- 719
Did that, but the deepl translator would tell me that I reached the character limit whenever I try to read through a vn
Overview:
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
- Definitions
- Recommendations
- Resources
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
1. Definitions:
Preamble: The problem with the NTR genre-tag on f95zone:
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Origin and general overview:
You must be registered to see the linksof course is a very broad genre, splitting into many, many subgenres and people tend to have very different definitions of the genre. Initially the term originated from Japan but finds common use nowadays.
There are several different terms that are commonly linked to NTR. Those are: Netori, Netorase, Cuckold, Cheating, Sharing, Swinging (and others). Following this I will try to shed light on the differences and similarities.
Modern and generally used Netorare (NTR) definition:
NTR means that an important, most of the times female person (girlfriend, wife, mother, sister, childhood friend) is 'stolen' from the protagonist by one or more antagonists, thus creating a feeling of jealousy. Due to its nature NTR is sometimes described as the fetishization of jealousy and understood as a form of masochism. Still that doen't always apply, as the player can decide which perspective to take.
VNDB devides NTR into three subcategories:
You must be registered to see the links: consensual from the beginning; no blackmail, harassment, rape, etc.
You must be registered to see the links: non-consensual at the beginning, but later on the heroine falls for pleasure and succumbs, resulting in a consensual affair
You must be registered to see the links: non-consensual from start to end
NTR usually contains corruption, manipulation, domination, moral degeneration and humiliation. Furthermore you will often find elements such as blackmail, rape, groping, sexual harassment and voyeurism going along.
Other terms and titles - 1. Netori and Cheating:
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Other terms and titles - 2. Netorase and Cuckold:
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2. Recommendations:
Obviously I wont list every NTR game that's out there. There are thousands and thousands of trash NTR games and the real deal isn't finding a NTR game itself - but finding those that are good and suit your taste and NTR preferences. The recommendations I will give you in this list are in my opinion the best of the best you will find. That said - my eyes aren't everywhere. So feel free to let me know if you think of a game that should be added to the list!
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Japanese H games:
English:You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
_________________Game__________________ _NTRgenre_ ___Perspective___ ____Status____ My girlfriend is a blue-collar worker NTR B and C Multiple Protagonists Completed NTR Homestay NTR B, Mystery NTR Multiple Protagonists Completed Until Her Armorous Body Corrupts NTR B Male Protagonist Completed A Housewifes Healing Touch NTR B and C Male Protagonist Completed Rin to Shita Tsuma wa Hitoshirezu Midarazuma e to Ochite NTR B Male Protagonist Completed In the House of the Despicable Family NTR B Multiple Protagonists Completed
Japanese:
_________________Game__________________ _NTRgenre_ ___Perspective___ ____Status____ NTR B Multiple Protagonists Completed Netori, NTR B Male Protagonist Completed NTR B and C Male Protagonist Completed NTR B and C Male Protagonist Completed Netori, NTR A and B Male Protagonist Completed NTR B Male Protagonist Completed NTR A, B and C Male Protagonist Completed NTR A and B Male Protagonist Completed NTR B Male Protagonist Completed
RPGM games:
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_________________Game__________________ _NTRgenre_ ___Perspective___ ____Status____ Henteria Chronicles III NTR B Male Protagonist IN DEV (fast update rate) Henteria Chronicles II NTR B Male Protagonist Completed Henteria Chronicles I NTR B Male Protagonist Completed NTRPG 2 NTR B Male Protagonist Completed Sayoko ~The Summer of Wishing to Stars~ NTR A and B Male Protagonist Completed
With CGs:
_________________Game__________________ _NTRgenre_ ___Perspective___ ____Status____ Satisfy Him NTR B Female Protagonist IN DEV (slow update rate) Between Dream and Reality NTR A and B Male Protagonist IN DEV (only a playable demo) Alansya Chronicles - Fleeting Iris NTR A, B and C Female Protagonist Completed Boy Hero Ken ~Haunted House Investigation~ NTR B Male Protagonist Completed/Abandoned Home Prisoner NTR B Male Protagonist Abandoned Dark Hero Party (or Thug Hero Party) NTR B and C Male Protagonist Completed When New Wife Megu Falls NTR B Male Protagonist Completed Bawdy Traditions NTR A and B Multiple Protagonists Completed The Hidden End not clear yet Multiple Protagonists IN DEV (mediocre update rate) Curse of Pleasure NTR B Female Protagonist IN DEV (slow update rate) Scars of Summer NTR B Male Protagonist Completed Holding Hands Netorase, NTR A and B Male Protagonist IN DEV (mediocre update rate) Daily Life in Jeopardy NTR B Male Protagonist Completed Minako NTR A and B Female Protagonist Completed President Yukino NTR B and C Female Protagonist Completed Spirit Squeezing Devils's 5 Day Long Orgasm Denial Game NTR B Male Protagonist Completed RaiOhGar: Asuka and the King of Steel NTR B Multiple Protagonists Completed
"Western" Games:
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_________________Game__________________ _NTRgenre_ ___Perspective___ ____Status_____ A Promise Best Left Unkept NTR B, Mystery NTR Multiple Protagonists IN DEV (fast update rate) Rick and Morty: Another Way Home (Nightmirror's version) Netori, NTR A and B Male Protagonist IN DEV (mediocre update rate) Long Story Short Netori, NTR A and B Male Protagonist IN DEV (slow update rate) Turning the Page NTR B, Mystery NTR Multiple Protagonists IN DEV (not sure yet) Babysitters NTR A and B Male Protagonist IN DEV (slow update rate) Girlfriend Tapes NTR A and B Male Protagonist IN DEV (slow update rate) Our Red String Not clear yet Multiple Protagonists IN DEV (slow update rate) False Hero Netori, NTR B Male Protagonist IN DEV (slow update rate) Family, Friends and Strangers NTR B Male Protagonist IN DEV (mediocre update rate) Babysitter Netori, NTR B Male Protagonist Completed Demon Boy Not clear yet Male Protagonist IN DEV (slow update rate) Good Girl Gone Bad NTR A, B and C Female Protagonist Completed NTR B Multiple Protagonists Completed The Edge of NTR B, Mystery NTR Male Protagonist Completed The Point of No Return NTR B Female Protagonist IN DEV (fast update rate) Noemis Toscana Rebirth NTR A and B Female Protagonist IN DEV (slow update rate) The Rural Homecoming NTR B Male Protagonist Completed Culture Shock Netori, NTR B Male Protagonist IN DEV (slow update rate) Swing & Miss NTR B Male Protagonist Completed Friendly Blonding NTR B Multiple Protagonists Completed Restore Her Career Netori, NTR A, B and C Male Protagonist IN DEV (slow update rate) Kathoey Not clear yet Multiple Protagonists IN DEV (slow update rate) Watching My Wife Not clear yet Male Protagonist IN DEV (slow update rate) A Mothers Love Netori, NTR A and B Male Protagonist Onhold True Bond NTR A and B Multiple Protagonists Abandoned A Wife and a Mother NTR A and B Female Protagonist IN DEV (slow update rate) My Wife's a Star NTR A and B Multiple Protagonists IN DEV (slow update rate) My Mother Kyoko - NTR Fallen NTR B Male Protagonist Completed The Spellbook NTR A Male Protagonist IN DEV (slow update rate) The Queen Who Adopted a Goblin NTR A Multiple Protagonists Completed NTR Legend Netori, NTR B Male Protagonist Completed Sandstorm Netori, NTR A and C Male Protagonist Completed Seasons of Loss NTR A and B Male Protagonist Onhold The Cure for Madness NTR B Multiple Protagonists IN DEV (slow update rate) Four Seasons NTR B Male Protagonist IN DEV (slow update rate) Amy's Ecstasy NTR B Multiple Protagonists IN DEV (mediocre update rate) A Perfect Marriage not clear yet Multiple Protagonists IN DEV (slow update rate) Karma Netori, NTR B Male Protagonist Completed Teaser～Date～Kanon! NTR A Male Protagonist Completed Summer Story not clear yet Male Protagonist IN DEV (slow update rate) Fictional Story NTR B Female Protagonist Completed The King of Summer NTR B Multiple Protagonists IN DEV (fast update rate)
Hentai Mangas:
-You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.You must be registered to see the links;You must be registered to see the links;You must be registered to see the links;You must be registered to see the links(NTR B)
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- Otonari NTR (NTR B)
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Hentai & Anime Videos:
-You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.You must be registered to see the links(NTR B)
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Japanese AVs:
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-You must be registered to see the links(NTR B)
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3. Resources:
For more NTR make sure to go to this forum/thread:
Here the cool kids meet and discuss new releases. Also it's a huge bank of knowledge and even data. A lot of links get posted and a lot of recommendations can be found there. Translations are provided. It's the playground of the community.
Netori and Netorase recommendations:
If you misunderstood what NTR means and are not looking for classic Netorare but rather for Netori or Netorase check out these game recommendation threads:
- Complete Netorase & Sharing Games Master List by zetsupetsu
- Complete Netori Games Master List by myself
Download NTR Games that are not on f95zone:
If you want to download japanese NTR games, whether its RPGMs or VNs you wont find many of those here on f95zone. You need to visit one of these sites to get them:
To find new games you have different options. Either you stay here; NTR games on f95zone (NTR tag applied - sort them any way you like) or you go to:You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
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Translation tools:
Best translation tool to use is textractor + deepl:You must be registered to see the links
NTR Mangas:
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NTR Videos:
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CG-Sets and more Mangas:
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NTR Literature:
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That's it. Hope I could be of help and feel free to add and complement stuff that I forgot. Hope you have a good time and we see each other around!
Also I will try and keep this updated - just so you know. Cheers!
Thank you
oops, thats new to me. Never had that before. Sorry maybe somebody else has an answer? Try asking in this thread
As one NTR coomer to another, I just want to dispute this thought that jealousy is the core feature of NTR. I know some other NTR fans would disagree with me, but jealousy focused NTR is just one subtype of it, and in practice, it's actually not even the most common one from my experience.
As you point out later, the male MC is very often oblivious to the NTR until it's way too late. And even if he finds out earlier, it's not always jealousy that is the lead emotion. It's often despair, a sense of foreboding doom, a sense of abandonment/betrayal, and desperation. Plus, mom NTR is a very common scenario, and the MC wouldn't be feeling jealousy in the majority of Japanese mom NTR plots. Asian cultures tend to put a lot of emphasis on the importance of family bonds and the traditional roles of the father as the bread winner (although the father is often out of the picture) and the mother as the nurturer. The mere fact that the mom will be corrupted beyond salvation and disregard her motherly duties towards her child is NTR in itself without any sort of sexual jealousy involved on the MC's part.
On a related note, the obsession with jealousy, in my opinion, stems from the conflation of the western cuckold tropes and NTR. Western NTR, usually some form of forced cuckoldry, is more often about the direct humiliation of the MC. It's much more common for the MC to be aware of the NTR early on. Jealousy is indeed the emotion taking center stage in a lot of these stories. Japanese NTR focuses much more on the female corruption dynamic regardless of what the male MC is feeling (often being oblivious for the bulk of the story). Of course these are just trends, and there are plenty of examples from both Japanese NTR and western NTR that focus on different scenarios and progression.
Lastly, to equate NTR to masochism would be to assume that the players are self inserting as the cucked MC. I've made polls about this before and was able to confirm my hypothesis that a significantly lower percentage of NTR fans self insert compared to the general population. It was something like 40%+ of general population self insert, while less than 20% of NTR fans do so. Granted, my polls allowed multiple votes which makes it quite a bit harder to analyze the data, but it should give you an idea. The biggest portion of the NTR fans view these stories from a third person perspective. That's why we can enjoy female protag, male protag, multiple POV stories, and even netori, which is generally the polar opposite in terms of cuckiness. And the common theme in all these different POVs? The corruption of the female character as she succumbs to the forbidden cock. This is so ubiquitous in NTR that I almost consider it the main draw of NTR stories. You get MUCH better corruption in NTR than in regular corruption tagged games. You could also probably assume that a lot of us are too far down the rabbit hole of hentai and degenerate porn that we can't fap to wholesome stuff anymore lol.
But overall, this was a great write up. I agree with most things you've said.
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- Mar 27, 2019
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Great thoughts on the topic! Although I tend to think jealousy is a core feature of NTR, you argue persuasively that it needn't be exclusively considered that way. Perhaps NTR can be subdivided into even further categories, each based on different types of the primary emotional stress that is being elicited:
- Jealousy: I really want, but I can't have
- Betrayal: We had a mutual agreement, but she violated her promise
- Shame: I am not worthy of her as can be seen by my [physical weakness, small dick, lack of money, ethnicity, social awkwardness, etc.]
- Dread: My worst sexual nightmare is coming true
- Disapproval: I thought she was a perfect angel, but she's behaving like a lowly slut
Of course, there's a lot of blending and overlapping going on in most NTR stories--many can be said to elicit every one of these emotional states to varying degrees. But perhaps the stories can be effectively categorized according to the primary emotional response being targeted.
Personally, Betrayal stories don't do anything for me, which is annoying because so many NTR stories are based in infidelity. For me, once I learn that the LI is MC's wife/GF, and they're already in the midst of a sexual relationship (or were at one point), I lose all interest.
I'm all about Jealousy: the desire to experience, but receiving instead the pain of being denied. To me, this anxiety is heightened if the MC has never before tasted the forbidden fruit, but everyone else seems to be getting a plateful.
And this is kind of why I disagree with your contention that Jealousy isn't a part of most Japanese mom NTR plots. I agree that Disapproval is definitely a key component ("my sweet mommy shouldn't be acting like this!"), as is Betrayel ("mommy's job is to attend to MY needs!"), Shame ("I'll never achieve social distinction when people learn mommy is a slut!"), and Dread ("OMG, they're stealing mommy from me and turning her into a sex slave!"). However, I think Jealousy is a huge component--maybe the most significant--of Japanese mom NTR stories, as well as western mom NTR stories, and really just about any incest NTR story.
If you think about it, family members are the ultimate forbidden fruit. Perhaps the most common mental journey Incest-NTR MCs go on begins in a place of "I view my beloved family member as an asexual being" to "I never considered my family member as a sexual being, but now I can't deny it" to "oh fuck she's hot, why can't I experience her too, it's not fair!" Son-mother, brother-sister, father-daughter... every great incest-NTR story seems to have this dynamic operating at its core.
Anyway, just my thoughts.
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I might be saying pretty much the same thing again, but let me try to expand on my point. Keep in mind, when I talk about jealousy (or any other emotion), I am talking about the jealousy that could arise in the male MC's character. Player jealousy is an entirely separate thing that cannot be quantified. It depends on the player disposition and whether they are self inserting, role-playing, empathizing, or just fapping to some fucked up story.Great thoughts on the topic! Although I tend to think jealousy is a core feature of NTR, you argue persuasively that it needn't be exclusively considered that way. Perhaps NTR can be subdivided into even further categories, each based on different types of the primary emotional stress that is being elicited:
Any other basic anxieties being explored in NTR themes?
- Jealousy: I really want, but I can't have
- Betrayal: We had a mutual agreement, but she violated her promise
- Shame: I am not worthy of her as can be seen by my [physical weakness, small dick, lack of money, ethnicity, social awkwardness, etc.]
- Dread: My worst sexual nightmare is coming true
- Disapproval: I thought she was a perfect angel, but she's behaving like a lowly slut
Of course, there's a lot of blending and overlapping going on in most NTR stories--many can be said to elicit every one of these emotional states to varying degrees. But perhaps the stories can be effectively categorized according to the primary emotional response being targeted.
Personally, Betrayal stories don't do anything for me, which is annoying because so many NTR stories are based in infidelity. For me, once I learn that the LI is MC's wife/GF, and they're already in the midst of a sexual relationship (or were at one point), I lose all interest.
I'm all about Jealousy: the desire to experience, but receiving instead the pain of being denied. To me, this anxiety is heightened if the MC has never before tasted the forbidden fruit, but everyone else seems to be getting a plateful.
And this is kind of why I disagree with your contention that Jealousy isn't a part of most Japanese mom NTR plots. I agree that Disapproval is definitely a key component ("my sweet mommy shouldn't be acting like this!"), as is Betrayel ("mommy's job is to attend to MY needs!"), Shame ("I'll never achieve social distinction when people learn mommy is a slut!"), and Dread ("OMG, they're stealing mommy from me and turning her into a sex slave!"). However, I think Jealousy is a huge component--maybe the most significant--of Japanese mom NTR stories, as well as western mom NTR stories, and really just about any incest NTR story.
If you think about it, family members are the ultimate forbidden fruit. Perhaps the most common mental journey Incest-NTR MCs go on begins in a place of "I view my beloved family member as an asexual being" to "I never considered my family member as a sexual being, but now I can't deny it" to "oh fuck she's hot, why can't I experience her too, it's not fair!" Son-mother, brother-sister, father-daughter... every great incest-NTR story seems to have this dynamic operating at its core.
Anyway, just my thoughts.
I think you overestimate the jealousy factor, especially in Japanese NTR. I don't know how much exposure you've had with NTR hentai and Japanese NTR games, but it's actually quite rare for the NTRed MC in these stories to be jealous that he can't have that pussy while some Chads are going buck wild on her.
That's because fundamentally, that jealousy angle is much more compatible with cuckoldry, beta variant of netorase, and other situations where the MC is knowingly being cucked. As you have it, most Japanese NTR stories feature the oblivious male protagonist and the main focus is on the betrayal and how low the female MC is gonna go in her corruption journey.
There are some key differences in Japanese and western NTR, both in the dev philosophy and the audience expectation. Japanese NTR is mostly hard NTR where the entire story is geared towards telling this NTR story. It's quite formulaic. There might be virgin runs or happy endings, but it's usually just there to strengthen the NTR and not as a satisfying route in itself. Whether it be male MC or female MC, the focus is overwhelmingly on the female corruption. When written with a male MC, he is basically just a vehicle, or a cursor, for the player to uncover the scenes. And since the main themes are that of betrayal/cheating/moral degeneration, the male finding out early in the story kinda throws a wrench on the whole thing. It's exceedingly tough to maintain the sense of immorality and progressive corruption when the male MC knows the NTR is happening. Thus, we often see multiple POVs where the MC doesn't know the full extent of what's happening, but the players can see it all.
It's like Schrodinger's NTR. Once you open that box, you need to collapse the MC's state of mind into something concrete. Is he really just a true cuck who feels aroused and jealous? Is he just a weak boy who want's to fight back, but can't? Is he a retard who has mismatched motivations and actions? And all of these options tend to shift the focus away from the female corruption progression. Most Japanese NTR stories opt to delay opening this box as long as possible. Yes, it can turn into some stupid ass oblivious retard MC, but I'd say fans of Japanese NTR will generally prefer this over the cuckold MC.
For Japanese mom NTR, I've played a lot of em and read even more hentai doujins. It's very rare for the MC to feel sexual jealousy. He might notice her allure or her changes (turning more sexy as corruption progresses), but he rarely crosses the line into incest desire. Like, you won't even find Freudian subtexts in a lot of these stories, let alone blatant incest subplots.
Western NTR female MC variant is not much different than Japanese female MC NTR, although the western scene emphasizes female sexual liberation (as opposed to female subjugation) more often than Japan. When it comes to male MC, the western NTR games tends fall back on the cuckoldry fetish. It's about his humiliation. It's about his jealousy. It's about his beta bitch boy life while some jacked up BBC dudes rail his girl. Very often, the devs even insist on keeping all scenes within the POV of the male MC. That means the MC has to witness all the NTR for the players to be able to watch the scenes. This is a tenuous situation for the male MC as a character. It's really hard to justify why he acts the way he does, and in most cases, it remains illogical or just turns into some form of cuckoldry. Mind you, it's not impossible, but it's quite hard to maintain the NTR vibes over the intruding cuckoldry vibes in such a situation. Regardless, you can see that the male MC's emotional response to the NTR is taking a lot more focus than the Japanese games.
And that's the point I'm making. Because the oblivious MC is the most common one in Japanese NTR, the jealousy factor is non-existent (or reserved for the ending sequence). And because the male MCs in western games are undergoing cuckoldry more often than not, jealousy does tend to play a part in the constellation of emotions he goes through.
So can we really say that jealousy is a core requirement for NTR if most Japanese NTR games don't even emphasize it throughout the story?
Edit:
One extra point I could make. Japanese NTR is about the breaking of a close bond and the girl being stolen in a protracted arc. If you imagine a situation like that, what would be the natural response? Would you actually be jealous? Jealous that your girl betrayed you and are now some villain's cock slave? Jealous? It doesn't quite make sense from a character perspective unless the male MC is deliberately written as a cuckold (or at least turns into one from trauma at the end) rather than just a nice dude who got his girl stolen.
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Damn y’all writing essays about NTR and the way it is portrayed is impressive asf
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- Mar 27, 2019
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More good thoughts! "NTR Theory" is fascinating to me, so I'm enjoying this dialogue. I'm getting a better understanding on a different perspective and I like that.
Perhaps comments and interviews from NTR creators can give us a glimpse inside what they were intending, and which emotions they were hoping to elicit.
From my experience, the emotion of Jealousy is almost always present. Just to be sure, after reading your comment, I decided to peruse some J-NTR stuff (I found a "sister netorare" subreddit with a helpful "recommended content" post:
If you'd like, I could cite some specific examples.
Extrapolating further, if these stories could be said to have any moral, it would often be this: if your love causes you to view the object of your love only in terms of angelic asexual purity, and you fail to acknowledge her as a sexual being, you are setting yourself up for an emotional catastrophe.
"Jealous that your girl betrayed you and are now some villain's cock slave? Jealous?" Well, I wouldn't be jealous of the betrayal (and bear in mind that not all NTR, Japanese or otherwise, feature betrayal), but I would be jealous that some other guy is slamming my LI, a well-drawn doe-eyed chick with big ole anime titties floppin around, cuz I want to do that!
Anyway, really fun thoughts. I don't agree with all your viewpoints, but you express yourself well and it's fun considering your perspective.
This is a good point. What the MC is thinking and feeling might be different from what the player is thinking/feeling. Do you suppose "author intent" is a factor here? By this, I mean what the author/artist/dev intends for the player to feel? To a certain extent, this is irrelevant--creators create, audiences consume, intent isn't necessarily a factor. That said, skilled storytellers are successful partly because they can deliberately cause audiences to feel a specific emotion. Wes Craven, for example, wanted his audiences to feel horror, and he was very successful.
Perhaps comments and interviews from NTR creators can give us a glimpse inside what they were intending, and which emotions they were hoping to elicit.
Well... I hate to brag, but I've logged countless hours inside Japanese NTR simulators and have studied uncountable volumes of NTR manga.
From my experience, the emotion of Jealousy is almost always present. Just to be sure, after reading your comment, I decided to peruse some J-NTR stuff (I found a "sister netorare" subreddit with a helpful "recommended content" post:
You must be registered to see the links
). I read about 4-5 manga titles and watched a few JAVs. "Jealousy" seemed to seep in every time. Was I self-inserting? Perhaps, but in Manga the MC's inner thoughts are often directly articulated, and those basically scream "I'M SO FUCKING JEALOUS RIGHT NOW!" In JAV, the cuck actor often frowns comically while clutching his tenting trousers, actions I interpret as clear jealousy signaling.If you'd like, I could cite some specific examples.
This is a good point. The "oblivious protagonist" is a common trope in J-NTR. What I've noticed with these plots is this: events slowly unfold, with the audience (us) being clued in on the LI's erotic shenanigans of which the protagonist is unaware. It's a delicious dramatic irony, and you're right in the sense that Jealousy isn't much of a factor for most of the rising action. The climax of the story is typically when the protagonist finally realizes that the LI is actually a hussy/corrupted/fucking the bully/etc. (Schrodinger's NTR box is opened, to use your metaphor.) During this climax, a swirl of different emotions typically afflicts the protagonist, paralyzing him. Is Jealousy the dominant emotion? Not always, I agree, but it very often is, and IMHO, Jealousy is always present among all the other emotions.
I tend to agree. The box is typically opened at the climax of the story in J-NTR, and I generally prefer it that way. Cucks tend not to be very compelling protagonists; the revelatory epiphanic moment of tragic enlightenment is kinda where Fonzie jumps the shark.
Hmmm... I kind of agree with this--Mom NTR MCs don't regularly cross the line into incestuous desire, and almost never do for most of the story. But I've seen it sometimes happen--generally at the climax when they're forced to confront the concept that their mother is a sexual being. I might have to do some focused viewing on Mom-NTR as homework.
Some good insights here! I tend to agree with you on these points.
I generally agree with you (one minor quibble: I think I said "component" and "feature," but not "requirement") but I took the liberty of marking your phrase in parentheses because I think it's important to my point: the ending sequence is typically when all the suppressed emotions erupt, and those emotions and the fact they've been suppressed are of crucial significance. I think an argument could be made that, for many J-NTRs, the entire story is really about emotions/themes that haven't been mentioned or explored throughout 90% of the story. It's the literary equivalent of sketching an object by focusing solely on negative space.
Extrapolating further, if these stories could be said to have any moral, it would often be this: if your love causes you to view the object of your love only in terms of angelic asexual purity, and you fail to acknowledge her as a sexual being, you are setting yourself up for an emotional catastrophe.
To answer the questions, "What would be the natural response? Would you actually be jealous?" Actually... yeah. I think it makes perfect sense for the MC to feel jealousy, particularly if the villain is experiencing something the MC has only ever dreamt of--or never allowed himself to dream of, as the case often is in J-NTR.
"Jealous that your girl betrayed you and are now some villain's cock slave? Jealous?" Well, I wouldn't be jealous of the betrayal (and bear in mind that not all NTR, Japanese or otherwise, feature betrayal), but I would be jealous that some other guy is slamming my LI, a well-drawn doe-eyed chick with big ole anime titties floppin around, cuz I want to do that!
Anyway, really fun thoughts. I don't agree with all your viewpoints, but you express yourself well and it's fun considering your perspective.
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As an aficionado of western-style cuck games, many listed in the lede are sorely missing their "netorase" markers - Babysitter, Babysitters, Cure for Madness, My Wife's a Star all contain very much consensual sharing/swapping scenes, and the overall tone in those scenes is completely different from those scenes meant to provoke jealousy.
Long Story Short, being one of my favorites- I'm particularly taken back by its classifications - "Netori", okay, sure. But the others? There aren't really any scenes seeking to create jealousy in some non-consensual way to the mc, you have the option of basically thowing your girlfriend at another guy - from your definitions this would fit more in "netorase"
Long Story Short, being one of my favorites- I'm particularly taken back by its classifications - "Netori", okay, sure. But the others? There aren't really any scenes seeking to create jealousy in some non-consensual way to the mc, you have the option of basically thowing your girlfriend at another guy - from your definitions this would fit more in "netorase"
I'll refrain from redundant discussions this time. From my experience of reading so many NTR stories, I came to a certain conclusion. From your experience of doing the same, you came to a somewhat different conclusion. That's fine. Maybe we are just wired differently to end up with different reads on the same situations that are present in the usual NTR stories.More good thoughts! "NTR Theory" is fascinating to me, so I'm enjoying this dialogue. I'm getting a better understanding on a different perspective and I like that.
This is a good point. What the MC is thinking and feeling might be different from what the player is thinking/feeling. Do you suppose "author intent" is a factor here? By this, I mean what the author/artist/dev intends for the player to feel? To a certain extent, this is irrelevant--creators create, audiences consume, intent isn't necessarily a factor. That said, skilled storytellers are successful partly because they can deliberately cause audiences to feel a specific emotion. Wes Craven, for example, wanted his audiences to feel horror, and he was very successful.
Perhaps comments and interviews from NTR creators can give us a glimpse inside what they were intending, and which emotions they were hoping to elicit.
Well... I hate to brag, but I've logged countless hours inside Japanese NTR simulators and have studied uncountable volumes of NTR manga.
From my experience, the emotion of Jealousy is almost always present. Just to be sure, after reading your comment, I decided to peruse some J-NTR stuff (I found a "sister netorare" subreddit with a helpful "recommended content" post:You must be registered to see the links). I read about 4-5 manga titles and watched a few JAVs. "Jealousy" seemed to seep in every time. Was I self-inserting? Perhaps, but in Manga the MC's inner thoughts are often directly articulated, and those basically scream "I'M SO FUCKING JEALOUS RIGHT NOW!" In JAV, the cuck actor often frowns comically while clutching his tenting trousers, actions I interpret as clear jealousy signaling.
If you'd like, I could cite some specific examples.
This is a good point. The "oblivious protagonist" is a common trope in J-NTR. What I've noticed with these plots is this: events slowly unfold, with the audience (us) being clued in on the LI's erotic shenanigans of which the protagonist is unaware. It's a delicious dramatic irony, and you're right in the sense that Jealousy isn't much of a factor for most of the rising action. The climax of the story is typically when the protagonist finally realizes that the LI is actually a hussy/corrupted/fucking the bully/etc. (Schrodinger's NTR box is opened, to use your metaphor.) During this climax, a swirl of different emotions typically afflicts the protagonist, paralyzing him. Is Jealousy the dominant emotion? Not always, I agree, but it very often is, and IMHO, Jealousy is always present among all the other emotions.
I tend to agree. The box is typically opened at the climax of the story in J-NTR, and I generally prefer it that way. Cucks tend not to be very compelling protagonists; the revelatory epiphanic moment of tragic enlightenment is kinda where Fonzie jumps the shark.
Hmmm... I kind of agree with this--Mom NTR MCs don't regularly cross the line into incestuous desire, and almost never do for most of the story. But I've seen it sometimes happen--generally at the climax when they're forced to confront the concept that their mother is a sexual being. I might have to do some focused viewing on Mom-NTR as homework.
Some good insights here! I tend to agree with you on these points.
I generally agree with you (one minor quibble: I think I said "component" and "feature," but not "requirement") but I took the liberty of marking your phrase in parentheses because I think it's important to my point: the ending sequence is typically when all the suppressed emotions erupt, and those emotions and the fact they've been suppressed are of crucial significance. I think an argument could be made that, for many J-NTRs, the entire story is really about emotions/themes that haven't been mentioned or explored throughout 90% of the story. It's the literary equivalent of sketching an object by focusing solely on negative space.
Extrapolating further, if these stories could be said to have any moral, it would often be this: if your love causes you to view the object of your love only in terms of angelic asexual purity, and you fail to acknowledge her as a sexual being, you are setting yourself up for an emotional catastrophe.
To answer the questions, "What would be the natural response? Would you actually be jealous?" Actually... yeah. I think it makes perfect sense for the MC to feel jealousy, particularly if the villain is experiencing something the MC has only ever dreamt of--or never allowed himself to dream of, as the case often is in J-NTR.
"Jealous that your girl betrayed you and are now some villain's cock slave? Jealous?" Well, I wouldn't be jealous of the betrayal (and bear in mind that not all NTR, Japanese or otherwise, feature betrayal), but I would be jealous that some other guy is slamming my LI, a well-drawn doe-eyed chick with big ole anime titties floppin around, cuz I want to do that!
Anyway, really fun thoughts. I don't agree with all your viewpoints, but you express yourself well and it's fun considering your perspective.
About the author's intent, it's actually relevant, but it could be deemed a subjective interpretation that wouldn't be suited for a definition of the tag. Since we rarely get insight into the author's intent, it's generally best to go with what's in the story. In most cases, the characters and the story are displaying the author's intent quite clearly. The potential issue with basing NTR on the author's intent is that there are some very delusional individuals that will cry NTR when the author obviously didn't intend for it (any non-MC sex is NTR to some people after all).
About the sister NTR, I'm not surprised that you found a lot of jealousy stuff on it. Sister NTR is quite different from mom NTR. Since the sister is not typically in the guardian role, it's a bit harder to interpret her getting corrupted as something inherently detrimental to the brother. In general, the bonds between siblings is decidedly weaker than that of parent and child in Asia. So it makes sense that more sister NTR would lean on the attraction dynamic.
About the endings. You make a good point about the nature of the NTR story structure. I think we are in agreement that NTR is not really an act. It's the story. It encompasses the entire narrative, from the set up to the build up to the pay off (for Japanese style NTR at least). So if jealousy is the major emotional response in the ending sequence after the NTR reveal even though the dude was oblivious all throughout the story, I can see how one can view it as a "jealousy story." That said, I still think there are too many other types of endings to really call it a core feature, but you've convinced me that it could be deemed a "common feature."
What’s your opinion on Korean NTR? If you ever read any Manhwa/Pornwha of course. I feel like they have a lot potential for solid NTR buildup with their format but it is some of weakest I have read. It could be their NTR philosophy is different with how often they give the power to mc and more mc focus than fmc usually.
I haven't read too many pornhwas, but I think Korean stories generally are more grounded in that it treats these situations without fetishizing it into the extremes of cuckoldry or focused corruption arcs of the females. In a lot of pornhwa sites I've visited, NTR isn't even a tag. Just because the MC takes some losses, that doesn't mean he can't have some wins too. In many cases, NTR seems to be used as a springboard for MC's growth, and in general, the endings are not straight up tragedies. These are long form narratives that usually tries to tell some story apart from the fetishes. Silent War is pretty amazing.
When it comes to medium length hentai mangas like on e-hentai, they follow the more typical NTR tropes. For example, laliberte is one of my fav korean hentai artist and they do a lot of the "MC eventually turns into a broken mess with an awakened masochistic cuck mentality after the trauma of NTR."
Actually I realized now (though you surely already know yourself), deepl has gone private. So you need to pay for an account. Very sad to hear.
