VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.2B Final] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[Maviarab]

Karlsson's Gambit (Public) Corporate Development Memo's/Discord Roadmaps/Release Dates:

Ver. Release Dates & Render Count:
Totals: 22,007 Static Renders | 246 Animations
01/2025 | 0.8.2 Final | 5001 Static / 115 Animations
02/2024 | 0.8.1 Final | 3311 Static / 37 Anims
04/2023 | 0.7 Final ..l| 4171 Static / 53 Anims
06/2022 | 0.6 Final ..l| 3516 Static / 41 Anims
10/2021 | 0.5 Final ..l| 2162 Static
04/2021 | 0.4 Final ..l| 1750 Static
10/2020 | 0.3 Final ..l| .l993 Static
07/2020 | 0.2 Final ..l| .l653 Static
04/2020 | 0.1 Final ..l| .l450 Static

Dev Logs:

02/11/2025	Corporate Development Memo	Pre-test update
27/10/2025	Corporate Development Memo	General update on Test and release date
19/10/2025	Public Memo	Random pre-test waffle about shit
12/10/2025	Corporate Development Memo	92 renders
05/10/2025	Corporate Development Memo	112 renders completed | total of roughly 3,652 renders overall
28/09/2025	Corporate Development Memo	122 renders | 3,542 renders total
21/09/2025	Corporate Development Memo	121 renders | 3,420 renders overall
14/09/2025	Corporate Development Memo	125 renders | crossed 3300 renders overall
07/09/2025	Corporate Development Memo	General game update
01/09/2025	Game Update	Current count is over 3000 renders | 1400 dom | 1100 sub | 360 secret sub
24/08/2025	Corporate Development Memo	139 renders | 2979 renders
17/08/2025	Corporate Development Memo	110 renders | 2,840 renders
10/08/2025	Corporate Development Memo	122 renders | total now of 2,728 renders
03/08/2025	Corporate Development Memo	Current render count is 2,606 renders/102 renders this past week
28/07/2025	Corporate Development Memo	111 renders, which means we have crossed 2,500 renders and we are now at 2,504 total.
20/07/2025	Corporate Development Memo	Total renders this week: 98 images and 5-6 more animations | Total overall: 2,393 renders
13/07/2025	Corporate Development Memo	100 renders this week | 2,295 renders overall
06/07/2025	Corporate Development Memo	101 renders, 2,195 total renders
01/07/2025	Corporate Development Memo	81 renders | total of 2,094 renders | 60 animations
23/06/2025	Corporate Development Memo	112 renders this week | Total of 2,015 renders
16/06/2025	Corporate Development Memo	106 renders this week/1903 renders total
08/06/2025	Corporate Development Memo	103 renders and we're now at 1793 renders
02/06/2025	Corporate Development Memo	106 renders/1,690 total
26/05/2025	Corporate Development Memo	113 renders this week - 1,584 total renders
18/05/2025	Corporate Development Memo	105 renders | 1,471 renders and 33 animations
12/05/2025	Corporate Development Memo	60 game renders --> 1,366 renders | 20 animations finalized
04/05/2025	Corporate Development Memo	102 renders and a few more animations, now at 1,306 renders after 13 weeks
20/04/2025	Corporate Development Memo	Dom Path --> 598 | Sub Path --> 426 | New Overall 1,144 renders | 19 animations
13/04/2025	Corporate Development Memo	105 renders and this brings the total to 1062
06/04/2025	Corporate Development Memo	Total of 958 renders overall
24/03/2025	Roadmap	756 renders (+105)
17/03/2025	Corporate Development Memo	651 renders and 12 animations
10/03/2025	Roadmap	112 ---> 541 renders and 10 animations
03/03/2025	Roadmap	429 renders overall for Part 3
24/05/2025	Roadmap	Week 3 Update: +113 renders -- 330 total renders
17/02/2025	Roadmap	113 this week = 217 renders done | WT and Faction sheet news
09/02/2025	Corporate Development Memo	104 renders | Steam news
02/02/2025	Corporate Development Memo	8.3 Start
17/01/2025	Roadmap	Final 8.2A Update
16/01/2025	Corporate Development Memo	Dom Path: +103 renders + likely 82 renders (185) | Sub Path: +125 renders
12/01/2025	Corporate Development Memo	Pre-release
10/01/2025	Roadmap	Info
05/01/2025	Corporate Development Memo	Info
01/01/2025	Corporate Development Memo	0.8.2 Test Ver Update
13/12/2024	Roadmap	Info
08/12/2024	Roadmap	Info
24/11/2024	Corporate Development Memo	Main path: 232 | Secret Sub: 367 | Dom: 1,647 | Sub: 2,100 | Overall: 4,336
10/11/2024	Corporate Development Memo	Dom Path +50 to 1,375 | Sub Path: +70 to 2,030 | Total Renders: +120 to 3,964
03/11/2024	Roadmap	Main: 232 | Secret Sub: 367 | Dom: 1,325 | Sub: 1,970 | Total Renders: 3,844
29/09/2024	Roadmap	Main: 213 | Secret Sub: 367 | Dom: 1,310 | Sub: 1,269 | Total: 3,159 (+130)
15/09/2024	Roadmap	Main: 213 | Secret Sub: 367 | Dom: 1,189 | Sub: 1,135 | Total 2,904 (+146)
08/09/2024	Roadmap	Main: 213 | Secret Sub: 367 | Dom: 1,115 | Sub: 1,063 | Total: 2,758 (+142
25/08/2024	Roadmap	Main: 213 | Secret Sub: 367 | Dom: 990 | Sub: 904 | Overall for Part 2: 2,474
22/08/2024	Roadmap	Main: 213 | Secret Sub: 367 | Dom: 990 | Sub: 775 | Total for Part 2 so far:2,345
18/08/2024	Roadmap	97 renders completed this week
12/08/2024	Roadmap	Main: 213 | Sub: 713 | Secret Sub: 367 renders | Dom: 955 | Total now: 2,248
04/08/2024	Roadmap	2150 renders done
07/07/2024	Roadmap	1660 renders, pretty good week (140 for the week)
01/07/2024	Roadmap	Now at 1520 renders
16/06/2024	Corporate Development Memo	1,370 renders and roughly 60+ animations
02/06/2024	Roadmap	1190 renders, 50+ animations
20/05/2024	Roadmap	Crossed 1000 renders
28/04/2024	Roadmap	775 renders
07/04/2024	Roadmap	505 renders after 5 weeks
17/03/2024	Roadmap	196 renders
10/03/2024	Roadmap	Hit 100 renders
04/03/2024	Corporate Development Memo	Line 500 of the code | about 30 renders done
19/02/2024	Roadmap	Final Release 0.8 Part 1
07/02/2024	Corporate Development Memo	0.8 Part 1 Beta
04/02/2024	Roadmap	Info
28/01/2024	Corporate Develpment Memo	Update Info
27/01/2024	Roadmap	-
23/01/2024	Roadmap	-
10/12/2023	Corporate Development Memo	2,277 renders
03/12/2023	Corporate Development Memo	Main: 396 | Dom: 901 | Secret Sub: 189 | Sub: 664 | 2,150 renders exactly
19/11/2023	Corporate Development Memo	1,939 renders
12/11/2023	Corporate Development Memo	1,856 renders
21/09/2023	Corporate Development Memo	1,201 renders
14/05/2023	Corporate Development Memo	Info
16/04/2023	Corporate Development Memo	0.7 Test
09/04/2023	Corporate Development Memo	-
06/06/2022	Corporate Development Memo	-
22/05/2022	Corporate Development Memo	-
15/05/2022	Corporate Development Memo	-
08/05/2022	Corporate Development Memo	-
24/04/2022	Corporate Development Memo	-
17/04/2022	Corporate Development Memo	-
27/03/2022	Corporate Development Memo	-
20/03/2022	Corporate Development Memo	-
13/03/2022	Corporate Development Memo	-
06/03/2022	Corporate Development Memo	-
27/02/2022	Corporate Development Memo	-
20/02/2022	Corporate Development Memo	-
02/08/2021	Corporate Development Memo	-
07/03/2021	Corporate Development Memo	-
07/02/2021	Corporate Development Memo	-
17/10/2020	Corporate Development Memo	-
11/10/2020	Corporate Development Memo	-
30/08/2020	Corporate Development Memo	-
28/06/2020	Corporate Development Memo	-

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Gentlemen, it is once again time to discuss the identity of Grym Gudinna. AKA, 'white tips', (because she is the one with the Shinigami mask that has white tipped horns). AKA, The mysterious individual that spoke to Patricia early to discuss Kane, and then later spoke to the Gambit Queen. The sneaky individual that snuck Kane a bracelet on the Dom route. The very same individual that has captured both our hearts and minds.

View attachment 4453774
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Now then, without further ado, let's reveal the most likely candidate, Alessandra:

View attachment 4453782

This is the worst photo I could find of her, yes. There is a lot of evidence that supports her being the culprit:
1. During the GrymGudinnaLives scene, Patricia meets with Alessandra.
2. Patricia has been taking orders from Alessandra for a while now. Alessandra ordered Patricia not to harm Kane in the prison.
3. Veronica also had a Shinigami mask, and the two of them are the only two Karlsson sisters to have trained under Kiyomi.
4. She does claim to be the only happy Karlsson sister.
5. The 'Truly be with, just fuck, enslave, or destroy' fits here. As she will truly be with a SS Kane, fuck a dom Kane, enslave a submissive Kane, and destroy any other Kane.
6. Apparently Tess has given strong hints that it's her? Though I will not be deterred by this!
7. Other reasons too probably.

HOWEVER...

A new challenger approaches...
View attachment 4453837
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Yes, Olivia.
This magnificent bitch has fooled her own father, her own mother, her siblings, and perhaps even us, the readers.

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There have long since been theories that Olivia is a 'secret agent' and that it's her speaking to her father, Alexander Karlsson as he dies. With each update, these have become less of 'theories' and more like 'undeniable', until finally the last update was released where it was effectively proven to be true.

Spoiler: If you seriously need proof of this... come on... but here it is anyways.

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View attachment 4453867
It was this line in the screenshot above that made me rethink everything for obvious reasons. But it also led to me revisiting the conversation with her father in the very first scene of the game.

Spoiler

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If someone like Angelica is a beast, then Olivia is a behemoth. Olivia is a woman on a mission. She does not need Kane. She will test him, as she's been ordered to do, but she's going to take over regardless.


Now then, lets start off with the reasons why we've all written Olivia off as Grym Gudinna:

1) How could she have sunk her claws into Patricia? Well, we don't know where she's been. She's a busy girl.

2) How could she have 'darkness', my Olivia is a good person! Well, clearly we don't know what she does off camera. She's been very, very sneaky thus far. I think she has done some terribly vile stuff off camera that we don't know about. Why? Because it supports my argument.

3) When Callista speaks to her, she talks about Olivia in third person! True...

With that out of the way, let's talk about why it could be her, starting off with the most important piece of evidence of all...

Why would Callista be helping any other sister win the gambit besides Olivia? And she specifically says she wants Olivia to win it to Elena as if it wasn't already obvious.

Spoiler

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But let's go through the Callista and Grym Gudinna secret meeting.

Spoiler

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Also, Olivia trained under the same person as Kiyomi, Ying Yue, so it's not unthinkable that she would have a cool Shinigami mask! Alessandra wants her sisters to kill Olivia. Elena has made a comment that they're all scared of her, and then Dominique and Juliette began targeting Kane/Seth hoping it's a weak point for Olivia.

And there you have it folks, undeniable proof that Olivia is Grym Gudinna!

Btw, none of this should be taken too seriously... But, hey, who knows. Maybe?

Well argued, but you proved your owner theory wrong at least about white tips. If nobody else was there, there would be no reason for her to talk to Olivia in the third person. Theres also the problem of Patricia still barely even being in Olivia's vicinity.

As for her being the daughter at the beginning there are two problems:

this line: Alexander: "I understand now and I see your real brilliance because you even fooled me didn't you?"

Why would Alexander say she fooled him when he's barely met her?

and in the implication that Callista made to Elena that she wouldn't have sent Olivia back until Alexander was dead because he absolutely didn't want her there and would've killed her if she was because he blamed her and Selena for losing Callista. Perhaps on this point, he changed his mind once he was poisoned, but that would mean that Veronica and Olivia were working behind Callista's back to get Olivia to him. It's possible, but I highly doubt that.

 

[BurgRoyce]

Well argued, but you proved your owner theory wrong at least about white tips. If nobody else was there, there would be no reason for her to talk to Olivia in the third person. Theres also the problem of Patricia still barely even being in Olivia's vicinity.

As for her being the daughter at the beginning there are two problems:

this line: Alexander: "I understand now and I see your real brilliance because you even fooled me didn't you?"

Why would Alexander say she fooled him when he's barely met her?

and in the implication that Callista made to Elena that she wouldn't have sent Olivia back until Alexander was dead because he absolutely didn't want her there and would've killed her if she was because he blamed her and Selena for losing Callista. Perhaps on this point, he changed his mind once he was poisoned, but that would mean that Veronica and Olivia were working behind Callista's back to get Olivia to him. It's possible, but I highly doubt that.

Not only that, Gambit Queen says to Grym "In your next board meeting".
Olivia isn't a member of the board yet. Even less so before Elena's willingness to resign for her sake.

 

[Stan5851]

kinkyshin
About Grym Gudinna = Olivia., sorry, but no. It can't be Olivia, and it's probably Alessandra.

First of all, Olivia is pretty pure and chaste from the start. And then, once she's under our control, we make her what we want her to be. There is no evil Olivia, we make her that way (or, we prefer to make her good).... All the events surrounding Olivia's appearance and her first steps are also put under our control, we actively build her personality to our tastes... And the person Callista is talking to in the Temple is definitely an established person, one of the Karlssons who has fallen under Alexander's bad influence but is still capable of change..

One can argue about the degree of possible change, since Tess didn't give a detailed description of how wide the range of her “flexibility rating” she set for key characters...But in my opinion, Grym Gudinna is still Alessandra and no one else...And Agent Olivia has already been trained and sent off on her mission, so Callista hasn't yet fallen into her marasmus while simultaneously training her daughter to save the family and come to victory in Gambit (preferably with Kane) while pretending not to recognize her daughter's voice and talking to her in the Temple where she's supposedly Grym Gudinna. I'm sorry, but it's too illogical and dragged out...(imo)

In addition, we have been shown evidence that Olivia's childhood was spent away from the darkness and evil of Alexander, first she was raised in a remote mountain Temple and there (apparently) learned martial arts, and then she continued to be raised by Callista, who Tess shows as a positive character with a strict moral compass...Then we see Olivia's youth, their meeting with Kane...So on and so on.

I can believe that it was Olivia at Alexander's deathbed (and Olivia's agent theory is still valid), I can even believe that Callista sometimes let Alexander see young Liv, but we know for a fact that there was no evil in Olivia's soul at the moment GD01 begins and we get to control her. Yes, the knowledge she had, the amazing acting talent she had and still has, but not the evil...So she “has no need to change for the better” as Callista to Grym Gudinna says, but Alessandra/Grym Gudinna could definitely use such a change.

Olivia is almost entirely a character under our control (and sort of a second MC) with all the consequences that entails. But I was interested to read your thoughts on this, thanks.

 

[kinkyshin]

Well argued, but you proved your owner theory wrong at least about white tips. If nobody else was there, there would be no reason for her to talk to Olivia in the third person. Theres also the problem of Patricia still barely even being in Olivia's vicinity.

As for her being the daughter at the beginning there are two problems:

this line: Alexander: "I understand now and I see your real brilliance because you even fooled me didn't you?"

Why would Alexander say she fooled him when he's barely met her?

and in the implication that Callista made to Elena that she wouldn't have sent Olivia back until Alexander was dead because he absolutely didn't want her there and would've killed her if she was because he blamed her and Selena for losing Callista. Perhaps on this point, he changed his mind once he was poisoned, but that would mean that Veronica and Olivia were working behind Callista's back to get Olivia to him. It's possible, but I highly doubt that.

Actually, Olivia being the daughter at the beginning isn't far-fetched at all and I thought mostly everyone agreed on that part?


It's my theory about Olivia being Grym Gudinna that's definitely uhh.. out there to say the least.

Not only that, Gambit Queen says to Grym "In your next board meeting".
Olivia isn't a member of the board yet. Even less so before Elena's willingness to resign for her sake.

Well, even the Gambit Queen makes mistakes. It's not unthinkable for a character to have an occasional slip of the tongue.

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[Stan5851]

Karlsson's Gambit (Public) Corporate Development Memo's/Discord Roadmaps/Release Dates:

Ver. Release Dates & Render Count:
Totals: 17,002 Static Renders | 131 Animations
01/2025 | 0.8.2 Final |
02/2024 | 0.8.1 Final | 3307 Static / 37 Anims
04/2023 | 0.7 Final ..l| 4171 Static / 53 Anims
06/2022 | 0.6 Final ..l| 3516 Static / 41 Anims
10/2021 | 0.5 Final ..l| 2162 Static
04/2021 | 0.4 Final ..l| 1750 Static
10/2020 | 0.3 Final ..l| .l993 Static
07/2020 | 0.2 Final ..l| .l653 Static
04/2020 | 0.1 Final ..l| .l450 Static

Dev Logs:

17/01/2025	Roadmap	Final 8.2A Update
16/01/2025	Corporate Development Memo	Dom Path: +103 renders + likely 82 renders (185) | Sub Path: +125 renders
12/01/2025	Corporate Development Memo	Pre-release
10/01/2025	Roadmap	Info
05/01/2025	Corporate Development Memo	Info
01/01/2025	Corporate Development Memo	0.8.2 Test Ver Update
13/12/2024	Roadmap	Info
08/12/2024	Roadmap	Info
24/11/2024	Corporate Development Memo	Main path: 232 | Secret Sub: 367 | Dom: 1,647 | Sub: 2,100 | Overall: 4,336
10/11/2024	Corporate Development Memo	Dom Path +50 to 1,375 | Sub Path: +70 to 2,030 | Total Renders: +120 to 3,964
03/11/2024	Roadmap	Main: 232 | Secret Sub: 367 | Dom: 1,325 | Sub: 1,970 | Total Renders: 3,844
29/09/2024	Roadmap	Main: 213 | Secret Sub: 367 | Dom: 1,310 | Sub: 1,269 | Total: 3,159 (+130)
15/09/2024	Roadmap	Main: 213 | Secret Sub: 367 | Dom: 1,189 | Sub: 1,135 | Total 2,904 (+146)
08/09/2024	Roadmap	Main: 213 | Secret Sub: 367 | Dom: 1,115 | Sub: 1,063 | Total: 2,758 (+142
25/08/2024	Roadmap	Main: 213 | Secret Sub: 367 | Dom: 990 | Sub: 904 | Overall for Part 2: 2,474
22/08/2024	Roadmap	Main: 213 | Secret Sub: 367 | Dom: 990 | Sub: 775 | Total for Part 2 so far:2,345
18/08/2024	Roadmap	97 renders completed this week
12/08/2024	Roadmap	Main: 213 | Sub: 713 | Secret Sub: 367 renders | Dom: 955 | Total now: 2,248
04/08/2024	Roadmap	2150 renders done
07/07/2024	Roadmap	1660 renders, pretty good week (140 for the week)
01/07/2024	Roadmap	Now at 1520 renders
16/06/2024	Corporate Development Memo	1,370 renders and roughly 60+ animations
02/06/2024	Roadmap	1190 renders, 50+ animations
20/05/2024	Roadmap	Crossed 1000 renders
28/04/2024	Roadmap	775 renders
07/04/2024	Roadmap	505 renders after 5 weeks
17/03/2024	Roadmap	196 renders
10/03/2024	Roadmap	Hit 100 renders
04/03/2024	Corporate Development Memo	Line 500 of the code | about 30 renders done
19/02/2024	Roadmap	Final Release 0.8 Part 1
07/02/2024	Corporate Development Memo	0.8 Part 1 Beta
04/02/2024	Roadmap	Info
28/01/2024	Corporate Develpment Memo	Update Info
27/01/2024	Roadmap	-
23/01/2024	Roadmap	-
10/12/2023	Corporate Development Memo	2,277 renders
03/12/2023	Corporate Development Memo	Main: 396 | Dom: 901 | Secret Sub: 189 | Sub: 664 | 2,150 renders exactly
19/11/2023	Corporate Development Memo	1,939 renders
12/11/2023	Corporate Development Memo	1,856 renders
21/09/2023	Corporate Development Memo	1,201 renders
14/05/2023	Corporate Development Memo	Info
16/04/2023	Corporate Development Memo	0.7 Test
09/04/2023	Corporate Development Memo	-
06/06/2022	Corporate Development Memo	-
22/05/2022	Corporate Development Memo	-
15/05/2022	Corporate Development Memo	-
08/05/2022	Corporate Development Memo	-
24/04/2022	Corporate Development Memo	-
17/04/2022	Corporate Development Memo	-
27/03/2022	Corporate Development Memo	-
20/03/2022	Corporate Development Memo	-
13/03/2022	Corporate Development Memo	-
06/03/2022	Corporate Development Memo	-
27/02/2022	Corporate Development Memo	-
20/02/2022	Corporate Development Memo	-
02/08/2021	Corporate Development Memo	-
07/03/2021	Corporate Development Memo	-
07/02/2021	Corporate Development Memo	-
17/10/2020	Corporate Development Memo	-
11/10/2020	Corporate Development Memo	-
30/08/2020	Corporate Development Memo	-
28/06/2020	Corporate Development Memo	-

I just got a call from the Nobel Prize committee asking if they could nominate you for a prize in the “math” category? I hope you don't take offense, Mav, but I told them: yes, this guy is in!

 

[motseer]

While I am far from an expert on the KG mysteries, I have been through this story enough to form my own opinions so, I guess, I'll give in to the temptation to weigh in on this "Who is the Grym Gudinna debate". The last person I would guess would be Olivia. I will be floored by the shock and awe if it's her. Evidently, there has been some consensus that it's likely Alessandra. At the risk of being shouted down, I just don't see it. I can't think of a single thing that would bring me to that conclusion up to this point in the story. Now, to really stick my neck on the chopping block, I have always been quite certain that the Grym Gudinna is Veronica. I won't present a wall of text argument to support my belief since, by page 756, one would assume all possible arguments have been presented ad infinitum. So, my vote; No way in hell it's Olivia, I'll be shocked and amazed if it's Alessandra and, to me, it's obviously Veronica.

*motseer crouches down in his foxhole and prepares to endure the hail of withering fire.*

 

[Maviarab]

While I am far from an expert on the KG mysteries, I have been through this story enough to form my own opinions so, I guess, I'll give in to the temptation to weigh in on this "Who is the Grym Gudinna debate". The last person I would guess would be Olivia. I will be floored by the shock and awe if it's her. Evidently, there has been some consensus that it's likely Alessandra. At the risk of being shouted down, I just don't see it. I can't think of a single thing that would bring me to that conclusion up to this point in the story. Now, to really stick my neck on the chopping block, I have always been quite certain that the Grym Gudinna is Veronica. I won't present a wall of text argument to support my belief since, by page 756, one would assume all possible arguments have been presented ad infinitum. So, my vote; No way in hell it's Olivia, I'll be shocked and amazed if it's Alessandra and, to me, it's obviously Veronica.

*motseer crouches down in his foxhole and prepares to endure the hail of withering fire.*

Probem here is that we already know V is Red Tips....that's pretty much confirmed in dialogue without it actually be stated.

____________
On this debate, I'm still leaning more now towards Kiyomi.

 

[motseer]

Probem here is that we already know V is Red Tips....that's pretty much confirmed in dialogue without it actually be stated.

____________
On this debate, I'm still leaning more now towards Kiyomi.

Well, let me just further reveal my ignorance... Who the hell is red tips...

 

[Maviarab]

Well, let me just further reveal my ignorance... Who the hell is red tips...

2 Masked ninja's....Red Tips and White Tips....both meet Callista (Gambit Queen)....

Conversation with 'Red Tips'...Gambit Queen calls her out on lying/knowing about Cole at their previous meeting (thus really, definitively confirming it's Veronica).

So the real question is (in terms of who it is): Who would be working with Callista to help her...and/or...do they know its Callista?

 

[jadepaladin]

Obviously, everyone shares the white tips mask because it's ultimately meant for Kane, they are just keeping it warm for him.

 

[motseer]

2 Masked ninja's....Red Tips and White Tips....both meet Callista (Gambit Queen)....

Conversation with 'Red Tips'...Gambit Queen calls her out on lying/knowing about Cole at their previous meeting (thus really, definitively confirming it's Veronica).

So the real question is (in terms of who it is): Who would be working with Callista to help her...and/or...do they know its Callista?

So... These people are referred to in dialogue as "Red Tips" and "White Tips"?

 

[kinkyshin]

Probem here is that we already know V is Red Tips....that's pretty much confirmed in dialogue without it actually be stated.

____________
On this debate, I'm still leaning more now towards Kiyomi.

Why Kiyomi?
The person has be a daughter of Alexander, and he only has 6 daughters at least according to Astrid.

So... These people are referred to in dialogue as "Red Tips" and "White Tips"?

No, it's just what some of us have called them to easily distinguish.
Especially since there was a time when we couldn't confirm that Red Tips was Veronica.

 

[Maviarab]

Why Kiyomi?
The person has be a daughter of Alexander, and he only has 6 daughters at least according to Astrid.

Gambit Queen: "You must not let her sabotage the Gambit. If it is not deemed fair and feels tainted, it could destroy everything."

?????: "But she knows now... how can she not try to help her own child?"

Gambit Queen: "I really do understand the temptation. But it's the way your father set it up. I think it's possible Elena gets what she wants without helping as is."

I forgot about that line...you're right, my bad.

I have to admit, Olivia does fit (and we shall assume she knows she is talking to Callista). She fits more than Alessa because for me, despite all the tlak here over the years about her, I really just don't see the connection with her at all, why she would Help Callista (if she knows it's her).

 

[motseer]

No, it's just what some of us have called them to easily distinguish.
Especially since there was a time when we couldn't confirm that Red Tips was Veronica.

Thanks, that's what I thought... Now, I'm really not trying to be overly argumentative but, I assume the purpose of the mask is to conceal the person's identity not to glorify themselves as "Red Tip" sister and "White Tip" sister. If I were playing this game, I would never wear the same mask twice when meeting those I'm trying to hide from. Just a thought...

I'll likely get to be wrong but, that doesn't particularly bother me so, I'll stick with Veronica as the Grym Gudinna and white tips and red tips is meaningless.

 

[Stan5851]

As for whether V knows at the moment she's talking to the Gambit Queen (when GQ is standing on the boat) that she's talking to Callista? I'm inclined to think she does... Just as Callista knows full well that V is hiding behind the mask (red tips). I can't provide any direct evidence of this knowledge, only my intuition. Veronica knows almost everything that is going on, and she is not even surprised by the coming Revolution, of which she is also well aware of the preparations for.

 

[Maviarab]

If I were playing this game, I would never wear the same mask twice when meeting those I'm trying to hide from.

I think it is more conceal identity to anyone who may be watching or see them (or just to fuck with us lol).

Callista knows exactly how they are, so they are not for her benefit.

So if you're going V, would V give Kane the bracelt...knowing it was going to be examined at some point by the DeKocks....especially given they are already on slightly shaky ground with V? Not saying wrong...we just have no clue....but tie in with whoever you think 'white tips' is....doing what they have been doing.

Or definitely going with, they are both Veronica (as explained, Red tips has been confirmed as her).

 

[motseer]

As for whether V knows at the moment she's talking to the Gambit Queen (when GQ is standing on the boat) that she's talking to Callista? I'm inclined to think she does... Just as Callista knows full well that V is hiding behind the mask (red tips). I can't provide any direct evidence of this knowledge, only my intuition. Veronica knows almost everything that is going on, and she is not even surprised by the coming Revolution, of which she is also well aware of the preparations for.

Hahaha... All of which are reasons (among others) that I have always assumed Veronica is the Grym Gudinna...

I forgot about that line...you're right, my bad.

...fits more than Alessa because for me, despite all the tlak here over the years about her, I really just don't see the connection with her at all, why she would Help Callista (if she knows it's her).

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I can't make myself even consider Alessandra as the one... The sister who was so brilliant she even outsmarted Alexander? Haha Gimme a break...

 

[Stan5851]

Hahaha... All of which are reasons (among others) that I have always assumed Veronica is the Grym Gudinna...

The problem is that Grym Gudinna described personality is not at all like V, although, like Mav, I too am lost in speculation as to why Alessandra (if the GG is her) would help Callista at all.. .But Olivia doesn't fit the role of GG for many reasons..I wonder who the GG really is then..The second ninja (red) (the GQ on the boat) is much less problematic in this sense and in the conversation almost immediately guesses Veronica...Such an old mystery, and we are still battling over it for years and no one has complete clarity in this matter, heh.

 

[motseer]

I think it is more conceal identity to anyone who may be watching or see them (or just to fuck with us lol).

Callista knows exactly how they are, so they are not for her benefit.

So if you're going V, would V give Kane the bracelt...knowing it was going to be examined at some point by the DeKocks....especially given they are already on slightly shaky ground with V? Not saying wrong...we just have no clue....but tie in with whoever you think 'white tips' is....doing what they have been doing.

Or definitely going with, they are both Veronica (as explained, Red tips has been confirmed as her).

I don't know, Mav. It's interesting (to a point) to speculate. I will say this, as I read the story each time through, I have a suspicion that the one who leaves Kane the bracelet is Delilah. I will reiterate that I think it's a mistake to assign identity by mask. If I were writing this story that would be the first thing I would use to throw the reader off the trail. I will agree that the person wearing the red tip mask in that particular conversation was Veronica. I don't agree that it precludes the possibility of her being the Gudinna...